DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Welsper59]

That's a cop-out reason though. And making a pessimistic assumption that literally everyone will be using it maliciously. That still ignores the fact that your so called "witch hunt" EXISTS in the non-progression endgame content, nevermind the actual hardcore raiding content in the game. We were also talking about how tanks and healers can get flak even for a minor fumble (lost aggro, death from unavoidable damage, etc). If a tank or healer isn't performing to standard then it's impacting even the faceroll content. The whole point is that it shouldn't be acceptable but you're saying "it is what it is, people can be malicious as all hell to tanks and healers but who cares about dps". It's not okay that we can crucify one side and ignore the other lol.

And again, I'm already not kicking the piss poor augmented ironworks dps that I'm beating on my Yagrush WHM in trivial content. But maybe a sanctioned parser can help them see that they're not performing well at all.

As I said... it's the design of combat that results in DPS getting a slide usually, NOT the lack of an official parser. Think about it? What happens when you throw in MORE people to a situation (e.g. CT raids)? Your individual presence is no longer as important. In smaller content, let's say 4-man content. There is only 1 healer to keep people alive, and 1 tank to keep people alive. They have more responsibility to the party than DPS do in order to prevent death.

What if 4-man parties comprised of 1 DPS, 2 heals, and 1 tank? Lets also just assume healers can't DPS for some mysterious reason (magic!!). Who's gonna stand out there? The tank? Sure. Only 1 like normal, afterall. The healer? Probably not since that'd be WAY too much potential healing with current content. The DPS? Most definitely... that ONE DPS is on spotlight to get the target down reasonably quick. It's rarely okay to ridicule others, regardless of role. Just like the more popular people (e.g. celebrities) stand out IRL, and thus they'll have haters, so too do the roles that stand out the most. You will be judged and criticized because we, as human beings, are pitiful when it comes to that.

With the holy trinity design, it literally puts the spotlight and significant responsibility upon the tanks and healers. The DPS, in most MMORPGs with this format, are run of the mill expectations. Nothing critical about them. That is BY DESIGN with that format. This is a significant reason why people steer away from the roles. They have A LOT of responsibility that DPS do not... again, by design. Why do you think people rarely pay attention to DPS in regards to commendation handouts usually going to heals/tanks? There's a reason for that, just so you know.

The fact you actually think that that reason is a cop-out, SCREAMS that you're ignoring everything logical to push an irrelevant want (i.e. parsers in this topic). The witch hunt comment indeed holds true with what you've stated so far, but I want to specifically point out that it's now also in regards to what you will do with official parsers. Outside of raids like Coil, I don't think there's really a necessity for a parser to exist. It's not like it's impossible to do typical DF instances outside of it, afterall.

[siverstorm]

The fact you actually think that that reason is a cop-out, SCREAMS that you're ignoring everything logical to push an irrelevant want (i.e. parsers in this topic). The witch hunt comment indeed holds true with what you've stated so far, but I want to specifically point out that it's now also in regards to what you will do with official parsers. Outside of raids like Coil, I don't think there's really a necessity for a parser to exist. It's not like it's impossible to do typical DF instances outside of it, afterall.

Logical? Defending the frail feelings of dps players in this game is logical? This is the double standard lol. Everything you've said SCREAMS "no, don't attack the dps for being terrible, but tanks and healers? To the wolves". That's absolutely ridiculous.

Also I'm not going to comment on your example of the two healer party because you're making the unrealistic assumption that the content wouldn't be tuned appropriately. Or the fact that it's a common occurrence to go into experts with i100+ dps that can't even break 200 to save their lives. Making runs as slow and painful as you say.

And I've said it several times already, I won't be kicking out the players in 110+ somehow hitting less than the Shield Oats paladin. But with a sanctioned parser I don't have to worry about getting banned and can comment or offer suggestions. If it's a situation where it's met with attitude then it would end up VERY MUCH THE SAME WAY PEOPLE BELITTLE/HARASS/ATTACK HEALERS AND TANKS IF THEY FUMBLE. Why is this such a difficult concept for you? The dps shouldn't be exempt from this "just because". That's a ridiculous reason and just reaffirms my point that there's a double standard.

But of course I guess it's fine. Let the dps autoattack and afk in dungeons, their feelings are too sensitive. Since that's the mindset 90% of the anti-parsers have in this thread. Afraid to see the reality if they're playing abysmally. Even the suggestion of the "DmC score screen" how many Ds and Cs should the dps see before they clue in? They should start tuning all the dungeons to be survivable with 4 dps doing less than 200 each. Since people with your mindset are part of the reason why most players dislike tanking and healing in this game, let's just remove them entirely, sounds like jolly good fun.

[Sapphic]

It's unfortunately acceptable because it's the least impacting role. Mind you, the majority of content in this game can be beaten by mediocre players regardless of role

That's only because the majority overgear the content when it's new. If you had played or remember before AK got nerfed, on demon wall, everyone had to play to a decent standard to be able to progress past it. There where many tanks fishing for 2/3 progression exactly because of demon wall and the bees.

Then came Pharos Sirius, which required a certain level of ability by players to clear. Which turned into Pharos vote abandon, Steps of Faith require a little bit of coordination, it is now labelld as Steps of vote abandon.

The first 3 have already been nerfed due to mediocre players in ability or disinjterest in improving to beat that challenge. A personal parser may kick them into reality that they are not performing at the standard required to clear content like that. Instead of thinking they are are then taking the easy path and complaining on the forums for nerfs.

Hell, first week of the 3.5 dungeons players where crying on the forums that they are "too hard".

[juniglee]

I think we can all clearly see a few facts:

- There are 6 DPS jobs to 4 tank/healers in total. This generally means that there will be a larger number of people who play DPS roles.
- Coil (endgame) is only really done by a really small percentage of the playerbase. Like maybe 5 - 8% (pulling numbers out of my ass here, it could be smaller for all we know)
- In the interest of preserving the feelings of the larger portion of the playerbase (DPS players who do not raid or do anything considered "hard", or requires DPS optimization), hence why DPS gets a free slide from underperforming

Barring Coil, you'll find that most content requires like 1 or 2 good DPS players, and these few tend to be more than enough to put up for weight of the other sub-par DPS players. Perhaps Yoshi-P already had this in mind when he came up with raids like the CT series. You can clearly see it even in design - there's 2 DPS players per light party, not just because DPS players are the majority, but because both players combined usually only end up having to hit a lower DPS threshold.

Tanks/healers still happen to be the rarer of the few, and for some reason Yoshi-P decides it's okay to let the DPS players rag on them for underperforming. Then we fall into a spiral where said tanks/healers become demotivated, and we get even less of them in circulation. Perhaps we all need to look inside and realize that until people embrace improvement and generally decent human behaviour, Yoshi-P won't give us the parsers we want.

I am all for parsers. I am all for advocating better play. Fact, I use parsers myself, and I do get a certain joy when I outperform everyone else. But the only time I care about my numbers is Coil. Outside of that, anything goes.

But until the community can embrace calls for improvement as an actual call for improvement, and work within themselves to improve and go to a higher level, rather than treating every little thing as an insult, or a personal attack, we are going nowhere, and official parsers will never see the light of day. I play on a JP server, and I generally never see this issue, except within the EN players.

[Darra]

Perhaps Yoshi-P already had this in mind when he came up with raids like the CT series. You can clearly see it even in design - there's 2 DPS players per light party, not just because DPS players are the majority, but because both players combined usually only end up having to hit a lower DPS threshold.

I find this interesting, because as a healer, I often found myself wiping in Qarn HM (Cactus boss) and close to wiping in AK HM on the demon wall due to poor DPS, and yet it's me as the healer, having to compensate for poor DPS or lazy DPS to prevent wipes in these locations.

But of course, as some people suggest, how dare I mentioned the fact that someone's DPS is shit and they're wasting my time, you know, me being a healer I should just shut up and DPS for them.

[Welsper59]

I find this interesting, because as a healer, I often found myself wiping in Qarn HM (Cactus boss) and close to wiping in AK HM on the demon wall due to poor DPS, and yet it's me as the healer, having to compensate for poor DPS or lazy DPS to prevent wipes in these locations.

But of course, as some people suggest, how dare I mentioned the fact that someone's DPS is shit and they're wasting my time, you know, me being a healer I should just shut up and DPS for them.

I think you shouldn't help out. Let your group wipe so you CAN blame the DPS openly. Just like a bad healer or tank means you will likely always wipe, so too can bad DPS... yet the games design makes it easy to recover from this. If holding DPS up to standards is that important, why are you overlooking the opportunity? Mind you, I do think DPS should be held accountable in some regard, but I know that the holy trinity design doesn't really allow that for a game that is open arms to everyone (meaning there are many ways to get around bad DPS in most content).

[Darra]

I think you shouldn't help out. Let your group wipe so you CAN blame the DPS openly. Just like a bad healer or tank means you will likely always wipe, so too can bad DPS... yet the games design makes it easy to recover from this. If holding DPS up to standards is that important, why are you overlooking the opportunity? Mind you, I do think DPS should be held accountable in some regard, but I know that the holy trinity design doesn't really allow that for a game that is open arms to everyone (meaning there are many ways to get around bad DPS in most content).

And then I end up in a group that wipes 2-3 times, wasting my time. It's a sad situation where I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

[juniglee]

I find this interesting, because as a healer, I often found myself wiping in Qarn HM (Cactus boss) and close to wiping in AK HM on the demon wall due to poor DPS, and yet it's me as the healer, having to compensate for poor DPS or lazy DPS to prevent wipes in these locations.

But of course, as some people suggest, how dare I mentioned the fact that someone's DPS is shit and they're wasting my time, you know, me being a healer I should just shut up and DPS for them.

I wonder if Yoshi thinks that maybe the players who do play healer/tank and end up sticking with it tend to be better than the average player base. Healers and tanks tend to be very demanding jobs, especially in this game. Just like how the very same DPS players will avoid playing tank/healer for that same reason.

These better than average players end up making the poorer DPS players look good though. When in fact they could be better. It's sort of a performance blanket.

[Sapphic]

My solution, add a personal parser for everyone that is toggleable, and add the option (if all party members agree) to a party wide parser for fully premade parties. As, pretty much those who want the tool for progression are running in statics anyways so they would never clash with everyone against them.

PF parties can set up with or without party wide parser, stated in requirements. Don't want to be in a party with a parser? Don't join that PF party.

[nuyu11]

When parser coming out officially, it's easy for new player or lag player to be kicked out from normal content that do no have enrage mechanic, A.K.A normal dungeons.

People will make comparison with class then the demand for change will increase, why this class low DPS why this class have higher dmg Mitigation, why this class can do more HPS and so on.

Under perform class will be left out or not needed, Just like WW Monk from WoW from last patch.

I recommended for dummy parser to help player with their rotation, but no more for that esp inside instance.

Well this is only "my opinion".