Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Gennosuke]

I really do find this mind boggling, that this debate is still going on when the issue is much simpler than these arguments are implying. Fact is, People can beat around the bush all day long with their own choice of interpretation for terms like Immersion to suit their side of the argument.

We need some common ground.

Here's an attempt at explaining this issue in layman's terms..

Airships are being introduced to shorten the time-span of travel between cities, very much the same way Chocobos are being introduced to shorten traversing the lands of Eorzea.

Example of pre-patch 1.19 vs 1.19:

Running from Uldah to Drybone takes about 8 mins.
Chocobo alleviates/shortens the time to 4 mins. - Great! Makes sense.

Running from one city to another takes 20 mins.
Airship alleviates/shortens the time to.. 0 mins. - Grea...Huh!? Wait a sec.. 0? What? How? Why? Shouldn't it be like 5 mins? No.. This does not make sense.

You don't see anything wrong here? Airship isn't shortening the time-span, it's removing it all together, this isn't just harming the game balance, it's illogical, irrational and it beats the very purpose of an Airship. It's a ride which you're neither experiencing by cutting it out, nor is it shortening the travel time to something reasonable to reflect an Airship ride in the context of Distance to Time ratio. This is not a teleport, it's not meant to be instant like one, regardless of whether you enjoy the ride or not, and let me add, complaining that the ride is boring is a valid complaint and point by all means, in which case.. we should request the ride to be an enjoyable and fun experience with different types of dynamic content, that would be the solution to the prob, not removing the ride all together, ignoring game principles for your personal convenience and instant gratification. This is an MMO where Space, Distance, Time and last but not least Patience is needed for the game to be complete.

Let's put this anther way, Would it make sense if Chocobos had the option to insta-port to camps?
No it wouldn't. This is precisely the same concept, I could argue that a Chocobo ride is a time-sink that i'd prefer not to waste time through because i could use that boring travel time to do things more important to me.
The fact is, it will break the game in every sense, shape and form. If you think otherwise, you are simply being irrational and i would be inclined to say you're playing the wrong genre. This is no console game where you're personal convenience is a priority. There is an overall balance needed for the game to function correctly and give a sense of realism.

Be sensible about this. This is not about personal gain, this is about keeping the game a pleasant rational experience overall. If you have a such a huge problem investing 5 mins into a ride which would have been 20 mins otherwise, i can't help but wonder if you're playing the right genre with how impatient you are.

In conclusion, I'll say it again..

Let the ride be a ride.. and let the Teleport be a Teleport.

[Konachibi]

I really do find this mind boggling, that this debate is still going on when the issue is much simpler than these arguments are implying.

We stopped debating a page or two back. Now we're using the thread to joke about how silly the debate was.

[Gennosuke]

We stopped debating a page or two back. Now we're using the thread to joke about how silly the debate was.

Yes, i kinda noticed the humor slipping into the thread.. which is nice to see.
I have to say, i also appreciate you're light hearted personality, even though i can see you're on the dark side

But, credit to you, you're style does appeal to a larger crowd, We can all surely learn from each other

[Jynx]

Example of pre-patch 1.19 vs 1.19:

Running from Uldah to Drybone takes about 8 mins.
Chocobo alleviates/shortens the time to 4 mins. - Great! Makes sense.

Running from one city to another takes 20 mins.
Airship alleviates/shortens the time to.. 0 mins. - Grea...Huh!? Wait a sec.. 0? What? How? Why? Shouldn't it be like 5 mins? No.. This does not make sense.

Let the ride be a ride.. and let the Teleport be a Teleport.

This is how I feel it should be and how it makes the most sense, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

[DNO]

This is how I feel it should be and how it makes the most sense, but I guess it wasn't meant to be.

nope it not meant to be. So lets leave it at that. Just because it makes sense to you does not mean its for everyone.

[Rhomagus]

Gennosuke:

I really do find this mind boggling, that this debate is still going on when the issue is much simpler than these arguments are implying. It is very simple. Fact is, People can beat around the bush all day long with their own choice of interpretation for terms like Immersion to suit their side of the argument.

We need some common ground. I have always been asking for this. I've implemented solutions that call for this. Maybe I should've have been harder headed instead of coming out the gate with a compromise.

Here's an attempt at explaining this issue in layman's terms..

Airships are being introduced to shorten the time-span of travel between cities, very much the same way Chocobos are being introduced to shorten traversing the lands of Eorzea. In their first iteration. They've been saying that chocobos will be utilized in a manner never seen before in the franchise history. No reason they can't apply that to airships as well.

Example of pre-patch 1.19 vs 1.19:

Running from Uldah to Drybone takes about 8 mins.
Chocobo alleviates/shortens the time to 4 mins. - Great! Makes sense. You also get to control your chocobo and there is room for expansion planned for later on.

Running from one city to another takes 20 mins.
Airship alleviates/shortens the time to.. 0 mins. - Grea...Huh!? Wait a sec.. 0? What? How? Why? Shouldn't it be like 5 mins? No.. This does not make sense. First iteration. Further iterations should include worthwhile content that will motivate people to fly rather than just simply "I want to get there in a different way". See Future Airship Content Ideas found here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Content-Ideas.

You don't see anything wrong here? No. Just like I don't have a problem with camera cuts and time lapse mechanics such as 1 game day = 1 real hour and why I'm okay with playing in the third person perspective. None of these things hurt my immersion. Nor should they yours. Airship isn't shortening the time-span, it's removing it all together,So is cutting away during a sleep scene. You're looking at airships in too shallow of a manner. this isn't just harming the game balance, it's illogical, irrational and it beats the very purpose of an Airship. Again, your purpose for an airship is shallow and unimaginative. It's a ride which you're neither experiencing by cutting it out, nor is it shortening the travel time to something reasonable to reflect an Airship ride in the context of Distance to Time ratio. Wholly unnecessary if you add actual content on the ride in terms of immersion. Don't need it to reflect real life in order for it to be immersive. I need the ride to engage me. I need to have a reason to experience the ride, otherwise a year from now it'll be dead and so will the zombies who inhabit it, this includes you and your peers. This is not a teleport, Putting it in bold doesn't make it any more or less true. Putting it in bold doesn't change my mind. Oh crap! I never noticed that before. I'm so glad he put it in bold. Don't be so demeaning. it's not meant to be instant like one, You're not the development team. Do I need to quote the dev tracker post here? The first iteration will be an instant one. I also want there to be more airship content. I also to retain the instant option. Read the "Future Airship Content Ideas" thread then come back to me with better content then we'll continue. regardless of whether you enjoy the ride or not, It doesn't have to be this way. Your elitism is shining through. and let me add, complaining that the ride is boring is a valid complaint and point by all means, in which case.. we should request the ride to be an enjoyable and fun experience with different types of dynamic content, Which I've suggested in "Future Airship Content Ideas". that ffs already.would be the solution to the prob, Which is why I've put actual content ideas forth, you know the whole, "We encourage you to continue to provide your feedback" thing. not removing the ride all together, So don't use that option. ignoring game principles You could apply your argument to the optimal rank system. Your view of airships is bland, shortsighted, and doesn't progress the franchise concept any further. for your personal convenience and instant gratification. Ignoring other people's real life time constraints and enjoyability for your own selfish, subjective, and shallow definition of immersion. This is an MMO where Space, Distance, Time None of these actually exist. It is a virtual world.and last but not least Patience Doesn't not need to be a worthless time-sink as you are proposing.is needed for the game to be complete. It's an MMO. The game will never be complete.

Let's put this anther way, I thought we were trying to keep it simple. Would it make sense if Chocobos had the option to insta-port to camps? Chocobos aren't airships.
No it wouldn't. Chocobos aren't airships.This is precisely the same concept, Except that Chocobos aren't airships. I could argue that a Chocobo ride is a time-sink that i'd prefer not to waste time through because i could use that boring Then you could use anima or an airship with their risk/rewards in tact.travel time to do things more important to me. Yes you could. I'm also not advocating that we get rid of these modes of transport, nor am I advocating that Airships be just a substitute for a port to the main towns.
The fact is, it will break the game in every sense, shape and form. This is an absolute falsehood. Instant airships doesn't effect the drop rate on Uraeus. Instant airships don't give me godmode. This is preposterous. If you think otherwise, you are simply being irrational and i would be inclined to say you're playing the wrong genre. BS. I'd say not being able to compromise with others in a societal environment that requires grouping teamplay dynamics would put you in the wrong genre. This is no console game where you're personal convenience is a priority. This is no console game where you superfluous immersion mechanics are priority. There is an overall balance needed for the game to function correctly and give a sense of realism. You don't need travel to do this. Balance battle and the economy.

Be sensible about this. I have been. I've been taking my criticisms of XI (the only MMO that I've played) into account. I've offered sensible, forward thinking, and pragmatic solutions that reach all audiences and playstyles. Read "Future Airship Content Ideas" http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/23360-Future-Airship-Content-Ideas. This is not about personal gain, We don't need to get into the philosophy of altruism, but you if you want to go there I'm down. this is about keeping the game a pleasant rational experience overall. Exactly. None of my suggestion are otherwise. If you have a such a huge problem investing 5 mins into a ride which would have been 20 mins otherwise, i can't help but wonder if you're playing the right genre with how impatient you are. I'm playing the right genre if I want to play an rpg in a fantasy setting that involves dynamic group/solo content on a massive scale. Below you'll find a quote from Naoki Yoshida himself:

In conclusion, I'll say it again.. You really don't have to. It's unnecessary at this point.

Let the ride be a ride lolitalics.. I want it to be a ride too. I agree with this. and let the Teleport be a Teleport lolitalics. I want it to be a teleport too. I agree with this.

You sure you can read this? I didn't put any bold or italics in but I can if you're confused.

Official sources:

Yoshida: Thank you as well. We’re sorry for any commotion this may have caused. We decided that precisely because we’re at the three month mark, now is the time for the drastic changes needed to make this game an MMORPG worthy of its Final Fantasy name. As we posted to the Lodestone previously, all of the staff at Square Enix will strive even harder than ever to make this game one that satisfies the demands of all of our players.

Yoshida: So if you ask what makes FFXIV special, it’s that you can be by yourself, play in a small party, play in a big party, play any class, play differently on the weekends or weekdays, the community size, and the way parties are going that day…. It doesn’t matter because there is so much you can choose from. The job system will be added which just means you could also team up with your friends and enjoy playing as certain jobs. I think all of that is what will make FFXIV different.

Yoshida: I think so. Down the line we’ll be releasing a PS3 version of FFXIV and that means a new generation of players including some who have never touched an MMORPG before. We’ve been working on UI improvements for the last six months but when the PS3 version is released, there are going to be a lot of things that are needed for those players as a matter of course. So even if there are current players who might object to it, I’ve always felt that we need to release whatever information we can. We want players to understand that we’ll continue to add new things, and given that, we’d like for them to make their own decisions on how to play the game, develop battle strategies, etc.

Much as we expected, the vast majority of players are spending most of their play time engaged in battle-oriented content, with synthesis activities coming in second. I cannot help but be concerned over the 4.6% result for socializing. This leads me to believe that in its current state, the game is lacking group-oriented goals and means of communication. Rest assured we will be addressing this issue together with the battle system.

Patch 1.15a went live with all of the intended content (resulting in a bit of behest-induced fever on some forums, hehe), and the dev team is now on the next step in improving the game. After balancing skill and experience point awards in 1.15a, I logged in and clandestinely took part in a few behests. I was left with the impression that everyone seemed to be having a good time. And it reinforced my conviction that MMORPGs are all about people getting together and having a good time.

This next quote is just a joke.

I have a confession to make—I hate planes. And I'm using "hate" in the strongest sense of the word here. Call me old-fashioned, but I never saw the flight of man as anything but a mathematical impossibility. Just looking out the window, I can tell these wings definitely aren't big enough! And yet here I am, writing my fourth letter at 30,000 feet. Why? Well, because FFXIV is a global endeavor, and after the recent changes to the development team, it's fallen to me to head to our offices in L.A. and London to give everybody the lowdown on the game's new direction, milestones, etc. I'll also be having a couple of interviews with representatives from some fan sites, which I hope will allow players in regions outside of Japan the opportunity to get to know me a little better.

Turbulence? Really!? Is the pilot trying to make me soil myself!?

To help me forget how much I hate being on planes, let me try and calm my nerves with a couple new concept designs...

This one too.

I'm writing this at 30,000 feet again, so I may not be calm, cool, and collected. But my interpretations of the poll data were all made while I still had two feet on the ground, so they should be solid. (Seriously, I really hate planes.)

This one is not a joke

At first glance, Question 3's results look to be an overwhelming desire for party-based play, but looking closely at the regional breakdown, Japan in particular has a strong showing of players who prefer rolling solo. I imagine for many people it might go something like this: real life obligations at school or work → can't play for prolonged periods of time → log into a game with mostly party-based content → spend time looking for a party → end up losing actual game time. I'm well aware of these issues, and promise not to let vicious cycles like this dominate FFXIV's gameplay. I'm on it. ☺

Though we're revising the battle system with a focus on making it fun for parties, the solo/party orientation and recommended ranks of game content will be clearly defined, and future adjustments and additions will take all types of player lifestyles into account. To take guildleves as an example, there is a certain comfort in knowing that if I go to this aetheryte or that counter, there is something to do. I'm of the opinion that there is nothing better than the ability to pick up the game and play even when you only have a little bit of time to do so, and this will continue to be an important element in the future. Of course, to make party play as enjoyable as possible, we're going to be coming up with some new specs and begin implementing them when possible.

In order to keep up with the times and cater to changing lifestyles, large-scale MMORPGs such as FINAL FANTASY XIV need to offer a more casual playing experience than before. Mind you, that’s not to say that the entire game should be casual. Rather, there should be elements that can be enjoyed in a lighthearted way, for example, after coming home tired from work or school, with mobile phone or refreshing beverage in hand. To elaborate, content that can be enjoyed with little fuss, that doesn’t demand large time investments—up to an hour, say—or require a party to be formed.

But come weekend, players have the choice of undertaking more elaborate adventuring, forming parties with linkshell members and/or likeminded adventurers to accomplish mutual goals. Light parties can exploit the versatility offered by classes to conduct forays into beast tribe settlements, something that a lone adventurer would find grueling. Full parties, on the other hand, can immerse themselves in fine-tuning job configuration in preparation for their bid to obtain rare items in advanced battle content. Disciples of the Hand can outfit the battle-inclined with equipment boasting the requested attributes. And last but not least, Disciples of the Land can set about gathering ingredients based on current class and materia crafting demands.

We still have some ways to go, but FINAL FANTASY XIV will gradually shift from being a grind-centric game to one that offers enjoyment for all playing styles and circumstances with its ever-expanding variety of content.

For 1.18, we’ve decided to get rid of the fatigue system after so many of you voiced your displeasure with it. Also, on a related note, we’ll be changing the way guildleves work in 1.19 to do away with the feeling that you’re somehow being penalized for not filling the daily quota of levequests.

We’re also going to be balancing in-game means of transportation. Our main focus will be on the already existing anima-based teleportation system, but new forms of high-speed travel are on the way as well.

All of this means big changes to the game’s balance, aimed at giving players the freedom to play however they like. I know there are players out there who are too busy irl to spend a lot of time playing during the week. No problem! Use your anima to get you where you need to go. Maybe you have more time to play on the weekends? Great! Mount up and travel around Eorzea with your companions on chocoboback, or grab an airship! This is the kind of freedom I want you to have—the freedom to choose your own style of play. And it is going to be a major focus of FFXIV’s development from here on out.

Mount/transportation system

-NEW-
Implementation of rental chocobos in the three city-states. Players will be able to rent chocobos (payable in gil) for a set duration.

-NEW-
Implementation of Grand Company-issue personal chocobos. Finally, a chocobo to call your very own. Sorry for the wait.

-NEW-
Implementation of airships linking the three city-states. Airships flying between the three city-states.Not "everywhere instantly" Pay for your passage in gilResource management mechanic., and hop aboard.

Rukkirii: Greetings,
For all those discussing the fast travel vs. interactive travel here - Foxclon made a follow-up post that we think will make the situation clearer.

Japanese Player: Instant travel is going to disappear…
People will start saying that travel times have definitely increased! ｐ(｀ω´)ｑ

Foxclon: Sorry for my initial lack of explanation about this.
For the system we are planning, we are making it possible to select the speed you want to travel based on your play style. If you would like to travel very fast, you can skip the cut scene and instantly be transported to your destination. If you would like to take your time traveling on the airship, you can. Of these two options, the instant travel will be implemented this time in patch 1.19.

Please don’t worry.

Rukkirii: *Edit: 9/7 - 2:11pm - Updated for clarity.

Link to the post here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post325378

I've recently updated this post. I will not be responding to posts for the rest of the night. I apologize as I rarely edit posts after they've been up for more than 10 minutes but this time I'm making an exception. I'll include a new post with a link to this post just in case the page number has grown dramatically since I started editing this.

G'night.

[MariyaShidou]

Example of pre-patch 1.19 vs 1.19:

Running from Uldah to Drybone takes about 8 mins.
Chocobo alleviates/shortens the time to 4 mins. - Great! Makes sense.

Running from one city to another takes 20 mins.
Airship alleviates/shortens the time to.. 0 mins. - Grea...Huh!? Wait a sec.. 0? What? How? Why? Shouldn't it be like 5 mins? No.. This does not make sense.

All air ships have FTL travel methods like Hyper Jump/Warp.

[Nabiri]

All air ships have FTL travel methods like Hyper Jump/Warp.

Now imagine if the Garleans had such technology. :x We'd be screwed!

[Konachibi]

Now imagine if the Garleans had such technology. :x We'd be screwed!

"Chocobo Riker, take us to warp 3 immediately"

"Aye aye Captain, ready for warp"

"Make it kupo!"

[Nabiri]

"Chocobo Riker, take us to warp 3 immediately"

"Aye aye Captain, ready for warp"

"Make it kupo!"

Your posts are fun to read~
Thanks for lightening the mood in this thread with your positive attitude and humor.

*tapes another gold medal under your name* :x