Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Konachibi]

Rofl ...okay Konachibi, that lightened my mood, Thank you.

Expressing opinions and ideas both calmly and light-heartedly is how friends are made.

Expressing opinions and ideas both angrily and agressively is how wars begin.

[Jobeto-Rin]

Excessive use of the word 'bro' affects my immersion. People whose immersion is affected by everything affects my immersion. The end effect of which is my immersion is severly diminished by this thread.

I edited my post for you now it's bro-less. Don't want you loosing that immersion eh?

[Quanta]

Excessive use of the word 'bro' affects my immersion. People whose immersion is affected by everything affects my immersion. The end effect of which is my immersion is severly diminished by this thread.

U mad, bro?

[Eekiki]

Expressing opinions and ideas both calmly and light-heartedly is how friends are made.

Expressing opinions and ideas both angrily and agressively is how wars begin.

What about expressing ideas through suggestive dance and excessive groping?

[Rhomagus]

Okay first off, I'm not sure where I'm coming off as being offensive, so I apologize.I've already outlined where you've overstepped the bounds of genuine discussion.

Those aren't my intentions. In the midst of all this, I enjoy debating with you Rhomagus.As did I for the most part.

So, If i've cited anything that elicited something as such, my bad.Understood, moving on.

Now back to the thread.

I posted the statement about immersion being subjective regardless because i got the idea that some people were trying to say they weren't being immersed at all. So I had to make sure that we were all on the same page of what immersion was. I know that we are now.Agreed and understood.

I stated that the people who enjoy certain aspects of the game are being shortchanged when changes are being made to accommodate for a casuals time. How exactly am I incorrect? Because they are still given the option to forgo instant travel. You aren't being shortchanged. This is an illusion cropped up by your own machinations. The smae applies to people who are making your argument.I made a analogy earlier. I read it but it does not apply.

There is a basketball game going on. Certain people don't have time to watch all 4 quarters,So they leave at halftime, or don't enter the stadium until the 3rd quarter. David Stern wants them to experience everything so he decides to accommodate for them by making it only 2 quarters,This would be false and forces everyone else to only experience two quarters. I'm against this philosophy. now it fits their schedule, their lifestyle.Which is good, but they could've chosen to experience the amount of the game that satiated their interests. Now being an avid basketball fan, I now have 2 less quarters to watchIn your fantastical hypothetical situation. When it never needed to be like that and the metaphor your making doesn't apply properly to the argument I'm making. thus my immersion is being cut in half.It's more like: A basketball game has four quarters, your friends leave during the second quarter and get the highlights the next day of the outcome. You're mad because your friends left you hanging in the wind, but instead of being mad at your friends your mad at Stadium security for allowing them to leave during the game. I experience half of what I could, I'mma feel cheated!That's why we're retaining the option for you to experience content. You have to choose to do that yourself. No one, not a single person, not a single post, has advocated for the abolition of airship rides and chocobos because they'd take too long. Only the opposite argument has been made. The opposite argument was made from the outset. I'm defying said argument. Please, don't get too technical man, it's just an analogy.A very poor one. I don't need to get technical with it. It's a horrible analogy and I've provided a better one.

Traveling affects the immersion of being in a massive open game world. No other type of immersion (that I can think of right now) is immediately affected. Engaging content. When you ask that airships just be a method of transport and don't suggest actual legitimate content to accompany them you're negating the chance of introducing engaging content. If people are engaged they are immersed. That is the only objective thing we can say about immersion. The sleep metaphor is irrelevant because it's not related to the size of the world.It's related to the experience of the content, which is what I've always been arguing. Regardless of if I watch him sleep or not doesn't affect the feeling of how vast the world is.Precisely. It doesn't effect it. The planet earth is not actually smaller just because we can take a photograph of it from outer space. The planet Earth is not actually smaller because we're having this conversation or we could call each other on the phone. It's a misappropriation when people say that the, "world is smaller". It's not technologies fault for connecting us, it's the individuals fault for not experiencing what the world has to offer. Thats why you can't use my argument on it. I wouldn't because your argument makes no sense. Not form a societal standpoint, not from a game design standpoint, not from an immersion standpoint. I still don't see why your being redundant in using it against my points.Because it applies to immersion and the level thereof. Different mediums enact different ways in order to tell a story. You don't need the medium to mimic real life in order for it to be immersive. It's even worse when the option for the medium offers you more and you choose not to take it. You could read my "Infinite Jest" metaphor that I posted earlier in this thread but I'll paraphrase it here. "Infinite Jest" is a very large fiction novel dealing with the themes of "amusing ourselves to death" and "instant gratification". The novel is nearly 1000 pages if not more, purposefully barring it from certain demographics, even among scholarly academics. There are extensive footnotes within the novel, some go on for pages, that go into more detail on the given situation. The reader can choose to read the story, or read the accompanying footnotes along with the story. The choice the reader makes defines what kind of person he/she is. In that very moment, when contrasting the themes in the book, the reader can contrast their own actions to what is being conveyed. This entails a huge depth of immersion, even by breaking the fourth wall, in a sense but it involves the reader to a heightened degree without actually breaking the fourth wall. It's all optional. Once again, the only type of immersion I'm talking about is the sense of scale in this world and what is affected by it, thus transportation topics. And it's not necessary when you've been given the option to experience that world or not. The key is that you are given the option to experience the game how you want to but you are forgoing that to complain about how others play the game. That's elitism at it's worst. It's almost childish, I don't mean it as name calling but I can only see this happening with a child. If I give a child an ice cream cone, and I give another child an ice cream cone, depending on the child, they will attempt to take the other child's ice cream cone. Do you not think this sort of behavior and mentatlity needs to be kept in check in order for us to thrive in a communal situation (MMOs)?

Off topic but...why do you provide unnecessary responses? Some of them are a given.
Like your response to when I said "We are being immersed into FFXIV, regardless"I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to but more than likely it was to solidify or verify your point and add onto it. If it's in regards to your objective/subjectivity argument I'm merely pointing out that no one is referencing or making the argument that immersion is only objective....
It was as if I'm not aware? Obviously, if I stated above that you are immersed only when your playing the game, I am.You can also be immersed when you are not playing the game, but distinction need to be made further to objectively say whether or not someone is immersed in an activity or not. It seemed more of like a belittlement to my points/phrases instead of you trying to make an actual point to disparage mine.I have made endless points. I'm actually lost on what you're referring here, but I'm not doubting that arguing with you in particular has become rather trite. It's inevitable that belittling will make it's way into the argument. As I've stated before, I match rhetoric, I don't soar above it for the sake of manners. I'll go wherever you go. I don't need to be the bigger man, I'm more interested in my righteousness not my character. You do that throughout my paragraphs. Maybe I did that in yours?You may not have necessarily done that in mine but you'll do that to others. In the end of your response your rhetoric suggested you were trying to flip our roles as if I'm somehow tyrannically denying your right to immersion when this is a misappropriation and I've only offered well thought out constructive criticism and even catered to your interests in my "Future Airship Content Ideas" thread.

...going on...after that you got into how the traveling/distance/massiveness points I made aren't applicable because of how IT's are built into the lore. Yes. Can someone please link me to this lore? Yes, here it is. When you click this link make sure that you then click AETHERYTE in the bottom right hand corner. Bled blamed me for not linking him to the correct location when I specifically included instructions to do so.I can't respond without reading this first.

Till then.

I'll link the Infinite Jest metaphor here at a later time.

I've also already posted the motivations for why I post. Everything written has a purpose, none of it is worthless.

[Rhomagus]

Why not ask the devs to make anima free then? and leave the airship to those of us who want a normal way to traverse the world, you obviously don't care how you get from Point A or B.

This is worse by actually removing a game mechanic. It solves nothing in terms of immersion and actually goes against the current lore. The airship should be more than just transportation, just like a truck can be utilized for more than transportation (haul, tow, etc.).

[Kiote]

cant fly to mordhona or fly to coerthas (right now) or fly to iron lake, can fly to limsa, and what do i miss? i miss a bit of Thanalan that i've seen 4 million times repeatative, but i still have to run from limsa to iron lake, or take choco.

Could fly to Grid and miss a bit of Thanalan and a bit of grid that i've seen countless times. Still have to run/chocobo from there to get to my final destination.

Quoting this post because I believe this is how most people are looking at this issue.

But, imagine you have not ever walked those roads. Imagine you just started in this game. And you can Instantly teleport youself to any City Via Airship grab the Aetheryte crystal and be ab le to free port between them without ever having seen the outside of a town. Then on top of that you can be ported to every other camp in the game by offering a few Gil. Now you can do everything in the game and haven't seen anything.

Yes, it's true that you have to choose to do that. But have you ever played an MMO where people did not pressure you to do everything the fastest possible way just to catch up? I mean, I can't even get through a run of ToTo Rak without someone swapping to there level Fifty and just slaughtering everything.

I can't imagine for a second any new player is going to have the joy of exploring this world when everyone they know or meet will be pressuring them to port everywhere as fast as possible.

[Konachibi]

I'm going to use a real-life experience now to explain a 'right' way to use teleporting (with a funny picture at the end)
Real-life is in black, game is in red.

I was going to the shops to get some alcohol
I was going to a dungeon to get some loot

I went on my motorbike, and rode quite fast
I used the teleport system, to get there quite fast

I could have driven slowly, but that would annoy people behind me
I could have ran there, but that would annoy my party

I quite enjoyed the ride though
I quite enjoyed the dungeon though

I drink alcohol, but I drink responsibly
I use anima, but I use it responsibly

Why?

This is why (Click here)

EDIT: Don't drink and drive

[Rhomagus]

"I prefer to be immersed in this game, period.Then by your definition. Just logging in should satiate your needs, period."
That was a response to Crica's "I prefer to be immersed into traveling", your response is unnecessary. It just solidified the point. Trying to nitpick because of some inherent anger doesn't give you brownie points.I'm not looking for brownie points I'm looking for the truth and trying to enlighten you. We solidified that just by playing the game that you are immersed in it's content. Am I not paraphrasing your own words here? When it comes to objective statements then you can say "period". This is the normal use of the phrase in the English language. For example, "The sky is blue, period". It's attempting to end the discussion by stating that the sky being blue is an objective fact, and that no further discussion is needed on the whether or not the sky is blue. We've already both verified that just by playing the game you are being immersed. I was holding you up to your own standards and reminding you that since you are logging into the game you are being immersed, period. Again, I employ the same rhetorical standards to match you. I do not fly above or below. I suggest if you don't like that rhetoric, don't use it, or leave. Either is fine with me. As soon as you want to go back to a tone that remarks a genuine discussion I'm fine with that too, you want to turn this into a /shouting match I'm okay with that as well. I'm going to leave when you start making the same logical fallacies or misrepresent me, but that's entirely up to you.

"Why should I have to lower/sacrifice my level of immersion for your time's sake?Why should we have to lower/sacrifice our level of convenience when you control your level of immersion. We can't control you but we can control ourselves and we're asking that you control yourself as well. That is not asking too much."

You still have anima, just because you waste 99 of it doesn't mean you use airships as a piggy back ride. I've already stated my style of play. I almost always have over 90 anima. Your point is irrelevant and still does not address that I'm provided you with the option and significantly more game content. They're supposed to be a method of realtime travel, not just another teleport.They can be so much more, but you are pigeonholing them to just methods of transport by advocating that that an instant option be removed when, in the end, it doesn't effect you.

"That is like watching a basketball game with only 2 quarters because people have no time to stay and view all 4.No, it's like watching the basketball highlights the next day. Man, even your real world metaphors don't apply.

I'm supposed to cut my enjoyment to 2 quarters because you don't have time? Absolutely not and I've provided further information on this metaphor and described how you misappropriated it.You're supposed to actively pursue your own interests. You're being treated as an adult. We're not going to hold your hand."

It's just an analogy, your supposed to get the parts on how it relates to it.And they don't add up. You are fixing an analogy to fit your illogical position. I fixed your metaphor to more accurately represent was is going on.

"Give me a break. This is an example of lowering the rhetorical tone. By saying, "give me a break" you are insinuating that what the opposition is proposing is absurd. I've done this but only because the opposition's proposal is absurd when they've employed the use of logical fallacies.I've given you more than that. I've given you an option for more immersion let alone the immersion you were asking for. Start providing ideas for content and show a willingness to negotiate like an adult and we'll continue."

I'm negotiating like a child now? You are but I'll go into that later. What I'm more concerned with is that you still aren't looking into the "Future Airship Content Ideas" thread and exploring the possibilities. You are being blinded by rhetoric and appeals to emotion. That's very interesting. Please show me this. See: The ice cream child analogy. Last I'm aware I didn't say anything demeaning or childlike other than fighting for a want in a video game. Some people would laugh at this statement.

Rhomagus, you don't know how to keep your cool and your arrogance and disrespectfulness is starting to show. I know how to keep my cool. I just choose not to in the face of aggression. It's unnecessary. My argument is already there, you want to pick it apart by ad hominem that's fine. Doesn't negate the argument anymore any less. Never did I try to intentionally talk down to you. You've tried to be snarky. I'm through with this conversation Good.

Be easy.

A defense has been written. No apologies given. Do with it what you will.

[Konachibi]

What about expressing ideas through suggestive dance and excessive groping?

Expressing opinions and ideas both calmly and light-heartedly is how friends are made.

Expressing opinions and ideas both angrily and agressively is how wars begin.

Expressing opinions and ideas both suggestively and with excessive groping is how kids are made.