My response to Jobeto-Rin can be viewed after the spoiler despite it not being directed to me:
Quote Originally Posted by Jobeto-Rin View Post
I agree. We are going in circles, only because this is a really hard subject to argue about.

A bit of clairvoyance struck me in the median of this ruckus; the mechanics of this MMO are being adjusted to a more time sensitive audience. Concisely, it's accommodating for individuals with the lack of. To be disgruntled with SE about this "casual conscious" decision (a monetary one for a business is understandable) is ridiculous.

So, taking a step back from this thread, I pondered about immersion. Is immersion the actual involvement in an activity or is it a gauge of just how deeply involved with it we are?I think everyone in this thread is referring to the common element of how we can be immersed in a medium, particularly how Square Enix does so. So, ultimately at the nadir, isn't every last one of us immersed?Yes to some extent. Just by choosing to log in there is a level of immersion that is required of the user, but that's the base of it. I've shown the different levels of how a person can be immersed but a lot of that has to do with the how much they are involved. I've shown how a person can become deeply immersed in Pong. You'll find that people's immersion is different across generations and mediums. Some people are immersed by chess, other are immersed by books. Some are absolutely incapable of becoming immersed in these activities because it doesn't appeal to their interests. Even Dungeons and Dragons style pen and paper Role Playing games can't be enjoyed by some because they don't want to utilize the imagination necessary to participate. They may be interested in the same themes and genre that D&D present, but they lack the hook. So they move to a medium that provides that hook. I don't see how this makes immersion anything but subjective.

So then, immersion isn't subjectiveHow have you showed this? To make this true with the information provided the only way I can rationlize immersion being objective is that people are choosing to log in. The very act in and of itself is immersion. After that, the levels to which we are immersed becomes increasingly more subjective as your immersion level grows.; Only the level of it and feelings areThe level of it and feelings are. I don't think only though. As some people don't move beyond the "hook".. Love or lump your version of immersion,Not to be off topic but I found this sentence beautifully poetic. I don't understand the phrase "love or lump" but I'll assume that it's akin to "love or loathe" you still are regardless.Yes. To play anything, involvement is necessary on the most basic level.Yes Deep or shallow of this involvement is insignificant.Yes, because the level of immersion is dependent the individual.

These mechanics being adjusted for people with less play time are bringing down the enjoyment of us adventurersI don't understand why because there is a lore explanation for teleportation. who have a higher level of immersion than most, and reducing our overall fun and experience.But you aren't them. You can be only you. Only you can experience your experiences. Travel means traversing distances, recognizing and feeling distance substantiates massiveness.But it's wholly unnecessary to completely base your immersion on it. As shown by another poster in this thread. We don't watch a character sleep for 8 hours. The character rests in the bed. The camera fades out. Then in mere moments, the camera fades in to a sunlit filled room. This, in general doesn't break immersion for movie goers. The argument against this is even more poorly supported with the context of the situation we find ourselves in. It's as if the viewer were given the option of whether or not they wanted to watch the person sleep, then complained about that their level of immersion was disturbed because another person decided not to watch the sleep sequence Remove travel, you therefore remove the essense of massiveness.Yes, but no one is calling for the developers to remove travel. Now it's MORPG. Last I recall, this is supposed to be an online world. Perception of massiveness is a major principle of a world.And it is still retained and preserved by not forcing you to teleport and giving you a lore that supports teleportation if you wanted. SE went to lore explanation than they were required and I respect them for that. I'm glad there is a reasoning to explain teleportation.

I read your argument of my post Quanta, I'm pressed for time, so I'll immerse myself later on to append my rebuttal to this thread.

OMG I'm such a nerd.


We're all nerds. I love it. I'm in good company. While I was a bit confused with your post at first I looked up a couple terms and phrases and it made a little more sense but your points seem contradictory.

I feel this is where the responses will start to get very complicated as I'm unable to just "respond off the cuff" as I've been able to before. I'm looking forward to it.