Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Bled]

Yes, please list them off for me. Only the ones where the forced waiting adds to the game, mind you, not the ones where you mistake being unable to skip things to be a gameplay element.
For example.. Final Fantasy Tactics Advance comes to mind as a game that would have benefited greatly from not having to sit through the halfhour long intro/tutorial. It was bearable the first time. It's kept me from replaying it ever again, though. Like an airship ride, not something I'd want to have to sit through multiple times whether I'm sick of it or not without any choice in the matter.

BTW, your argument boils down to "if people have access to content that's easier to enjoy, they're going to choose it over other content"
Which is really not much of an argument at all.

And I counter your Abysea with Chains of Promathia, which was an enormous pain in the dick to complete because very few people were willing to do it again after experiencing it once, even after level sync negated the requirement of buying new gear sets for 30, 40, 50, and 60! GL getting a group willing to do promyvions with you, let alone one that's capable of clearing it, even after spending hours farming for items to weaken the boss!

Human nature; present a caveman with magically cooked chicken that appears before him or force him to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. Of course the cave man would choose the magical cooked chicken appearing before his eyes, however guess what he had to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. So because the cave man had to take the hard road he learned more along the way like fire, hunting, skinning, bone craving, weapon making. Can you stop and even imagine where we would be today if everything was just given to us!?!?

Human nature is to take the easy way out so if you present game content that has easy content and hard content it is only natural for a person to choose easy content. In this respect people should not have any choice or say in the games development.

Edit: and again you are confusing your own impatiences for what immersion actually is.

[Jaber]

Human nature; present a caveman with magically cooked chicken that appears before him or force him to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. Of course the cave man would choose the magical cooked chicken appearing before his eyes, however guess what he had to hunt, then kill, then find a way to cook the chicken. So because the cave man had to take the hard road he learned more along the way like fire, hunting, skinning, bone craving, weapon making. Can you stop and even imagine where we would be today if everything was just given to us!?!?

Human nature is to take the easy way out so if you present game content that has easy content and hard content it is only natural for a person to choose easy content. In this respect people should not have any choice or say in the games development.

The flaw in your argument is that this is a game.
People don't play games to 'take the easy way out'. They play games to take the fun way. If the fun way is the easy way, okay. If it's not, that's okay too. In FFXIV, they will be able to choose the way in which they get the most enjoyment, and unlike in your example, they don't have any sort of threat pressuring them to go one way or the other. As long as the choice isn't affecting anyone but themselves, they can choose whichever they like, and if they choose to take the way that they don't enjoy because it's the "easy way", it's their own damn fault. It doesn't need to be forced for you to enjoy it.

In the end, no matter what they choose, the only prize is getting to their destination. It's not like an "LOL INSTANT LEVEL UP BUTTON EASY MODO". It's not a symbol of status to go to limsa from uldah. There's no epeen or achievement involved.
There's just "I want to/don't feel like looking at the scenery for 10-60 minutes, so I'll do this".

[Bled]

The flaw in your argument is that this is a game.
People don't play games to 'take the easy way out'. They play games to take the fun way. If the fun way is the easy way, okay. If it's not, that's okay too. In FFXIV, they will be able to choose the way in which they get the most enjoyment, and unlike in your example, they don't have any sort of threat pressuring them to go one way or the other, and as long as the choice isn't affecting anyone but themselves, they can choose whichever they like.

In the end, no matter what they choose, the only prize is getting to their destination. It's not like an "LOL INSTANT LEVEL UP BUTTON EASY MODO". It's not a symbol of status to go to limsa from uldah. There's no epeen or achievement involved.
There's just "I want to/don't feel like looking at the scenery for 10-60 minutes, so I'll do this".

The point went completely over your head, shall i try to explain it to you or am i leading a horse to water just to find he wont drink?

[Jaber]

The point went completely over your head, shall i try to explain it to you or am i leading a horse to water just to find he wont drink?

Is your new debate tactic saying things that are so completely irrelevant and stupid that it leaves people speechless?

If you had the option of riding the airship or skipping it, which would you choose?
Would you ride it?
Would you skip it?
If you would ride it, why is the option of skipping it a problem for you?
If you would skip it, why would lacking that option make riding it enjoyable?

I mean, I could understand if it were going to be either/or, but since there's going to be both options, how is it a problem for you if other people can choose not to do it the way you prefer?
I don't see anyone arguing for having the option of skipping it arguing against having the option to ride it, yet everyone who wants to ride it seems to be vehemently opposed to anyone being able to skip it.
I don't get it, and have come to believe that those people don't fully understand it themselves, either.

[Bled]

Is your new debate tactic saying things that are so completely irrelevant and stupid that it leaves people speechless?

This conversation ceased to be a legitimate debate when your main platform was "show me games that made me wait"...talk about irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Edit: You are missing the whole big picture, first we say hey you get insta teleport in the form of anima, then insta teleport with no cost in the form of airships, then we get the option to skip cut scenes, then we get GIANT POINTERS FOR QUESTS! that say DUURRRRR this way, seriously man when does this crap end. I hope you are seeing the trend in the game and why ruining immersion is ultimately ruining the game.

Things are not black and white, and there is always more to something then what seems.

[Jaber]

This conversation ceased to be a legitimate debate when your main platform was "show me games that made me wait"...talk about irrelevant to the topic at hand.

So that's a "yes", then, which seems to be confirmed by your posts in other topics as well.

[Bled]

So that's a "yes", then, which seems to be confirmed by your posts in other topics as well.

when you have something constructive and well thought out ill "debate" with you again kind sir.

[Jaber]

DUURRRRR

Anima is teleport from anywhere to point A. Or B. Or C. And so on.
Airships are run to point A, teleport/ride to point B.

Anima has an effective time cost of 8 to 24 hours depending on the location you teleport from and the location you teleport to.
Airships have an effective time cost of however long it takes you to run to point A.

Personally, I don't like the way anima works and would rather it be set up similarly to the insta-travel airships, e.g. teleport from Aetheryte to Aetheryte for a much lower cost.

As for quests... quests need pointers. They don't need to be big DERRRR pointers, but they need to have pointers. Clear directions. You should never need to guess blindly at what you need to do. In FFXI, that's exactly what you ended up doing most of the time, as most of those pointers were not in the game. They were on the wiki. That's just poor design, and I'd like to not have to figure out what ??? I need to check in what zone at what time, assuming I need to check it and not trade it an item or items or dance naked in the moonlight next to it while someone plays banjo music with their feet.
That is, of course, entirely and completely unrelated to the topic of forcing delays on people for no reason other than to force delays on people. Call it immersion or whatever you like. It's still a delay, and it's still forced on you whether you enjoy it or not, and it's not going to be any more enjoyable if you don't have the option of skipping it.
Forcing it isn't going to add immersion, unless it's simulating what it's like to ride an airplane filled with clothing mannequins when everyone who doesn't enjoy it goes AFK.

I love your immersive dynamic content idea, however as I'm sure your aware If that choice were to be presented the hard way would have to out way the easy way with benefits, as does anything of that nature.

Obviously if you skipped the ride you would be skipping any events that takes place during the ride, including any rewards or repercussions they may offer.

[Bled]

Anima is teleport from anywhere to point A. Or B. Or C. And so on.
Airships are run to point A, teleport/ride to point B.

Anima has an effective time cost of 8 to 24 hours depending on the location you teleport from and the location you teleport to.
Airships have an effective time cost of however long it takes you to run to point A.

Personally, I don't like the way anima works and would rather it be set up similarly to the insta-travel airships, e.g. teleport from Aetheryte to Aetheryte for a much lower cost.

As for quests... quests need pointers. They don't need to be big DERRRR pointers, but they need to have pointers. Clear directions. You should never need to guess blindly at what you need to do. In FFXI, that's exactly what you ended up doing most of the time, as most of those pointers were not in the game. They were on the wiki. That's just poor design, and I'd like to not have to figure out what ??? I need to check in what zone at what time, assuming I need to check it and not trade it an item or items or dance naked in the moonlight next to it while someone plays banjo music with their feet.
That is, of course, entirely and completely unrelated to the topic of forcing delays on people for no reason other than to force delays on people. Call it immersion or whatever you like. It's still a delay, and it's still forced on you whether you enjoy it or not, and it's not going to be any more enjoyable if you don't have the option of skipping it.
Forcing it isn't going to add immersion, unless it's simulating what it's like to ride an airplane filled with clothing mannequins when everyone who doesn't enjoy it goes AFK.


Obviously if you skipped the ride you would be skipping any events that takes place during the ride, including any rewards or repercussions they may offer.

first and foremost laying out the game mechanic of anima and airships is not grounds for material in stating that it is not a step in the direction of making games less immersive.

Second quests do not need big pointers, or giant exclamation points in order to be doable again they just ruin immersion. Continuing with the example of final fantasy 11 finding destinations were not all that difficult, the game laid out the region, then area, and then person, truly that is all you need. i am not the poster child/advocate for no skip able airship rides, what I'm advocating is the importance of immersion as a whole. In FF11 you finished a quest and you reflected on that quest with funny stories, fond stories, or even stories of frustration; in FF14 i cant even remember the name of any decent quests let alone one frustrating.

forcing delays on people is to set the tone of a game, it sets the mood. what would you remember more:

A. FF14 leveling which equates to abysea power leveling.

B. FF11 back before abysea.

and be honest with yourself.

[Seif]

This conversation ceased to be a legitimate debate when your main platform was "show me games that made me wait"...talk about irrelevant to the topic at hand.

Edit: You are missing the whole big picture, first we say hey you get insta teleport in the form of anima, then insta teleport with no cost in the form of airships, then we get the option to skip cut scenes, then we get GIANT POINTERS FOR QUESTS! that say DUURRRRR this way, seriously man when does this crap end. I hope you are seeing the trend in the game and why ruining immersion is ultimately ruining the game.

Things are not black and white, and there is always more to something then what seems.

I think you bring up a good point here. The giant arrows everywhere make the world and the lore completely irrelevant.
In XI you were hanging onto every word the NPC's spoke because it could have major gameplay information woven into the conversation. In XIV all text are just completely flavor text glued on top of a levequest that is completely irrelevant to the player and that more than any other aspect in the game ruins the immersion for me.

warp to location X--> get handed a leve-->warp to location-->kill the too easy mobs-->warp back---->get anded a useless piece of gear/too much gil