Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Rhomagus]

Anything that takes time requires us to be more involved, hence immersion. MMO's thrive off of that. That is the notion I was trying to provide.

I'm not trying to imply that we need to waste time, in order to provide immersion. Nor did I mean to insinuate that non-insta traveling provides difficulty. Those were 3 different variables that effect immersion in a MMO. Goals that don't require time spent to achieve them, more than likely, feel less rewarding than those that do.

A road less traveled and instant shortcut are not interchangeable.

Read my 2nd post, if you have no time....

We are supposed to make time for MMO's. Not the other way around.

A road less traveled and instant shortcut are not interchangeable.

You read it wrong, the road less traveled is actually the less convenient one. Nature follows the path of least resistance. In essence, the metaphor here applies to the immersionist not the person wanting convenience.

Anything that takes time requires us to be more involved

AFK on an airship involves me how again?

Read my 2nd post, if you have no time....

I've read your second post and agree with you in some aspects, if only a few. I've edited them accordingly in my response to reflect a fair compromise and the philosophies I too would like implemented.

We are supposed to make time for MMO's. Not the other way around.

Absolutely disagree with you on this, and I think the disclaimer that you accept before playing every time would also like a word with you. Forgetting your family, skipping school and work, and creating room in life for the purpose of "making time" in an MMO is not healthy nor condoned by Square Enix. I play an MMO in my "downtime". I don't "make time" for it. That's absolutely ridiculous and is the very crux of our design philosophies here.

If you respond, also take into account I've never played any other MMO besides Final Fantasy XI. I've never even tried WoW. This is not a WoW vs FF argument. Nor is it a churn and burn vs. immersion argument. It's an options vs. no options argument.

[Jobeto-Rin]

You read it wrong, the road less traveled is actually the less convenient one. Nature follows the path of least resistance. In essence, the metaphor here applies to the immersionist not the person wanting convenience.



AFK on an airship involves me how again?



I've read your second post and agree with you in some aspects, if only a few. I've edited them accordingly in my response to reflect a fair compromise and the philosophies I too would like implemented.



Absolutely disagree with you on this, and I think the disclaimer that you accept before playing every time would also like a word with you. Dumping a girlfriend, skipping work, forgetting your schoolwork is "making" time for an MMO. I play an MMO in my "downtime". I don't "make time" for it. That's absolutely ridiculous and is at the very crux of our philosophical argument here.

I'm not sure I understand the ridiculousness of setting aside time to play a game, that should be immersive and involve time in the first place.

I think your forgetting MMO's are supposed to be another world to be involved in, a game in which you can temporarily forget about other issues. Which is the point of the disclaimer, don't forget RL.

Now MMO's are just another game to be played and rushed through.

[Synapse]

Now MMO's are just another game to be played and rushed through.

Yup welcome to the retarded Log in > loading Screen > NPC > Loading Screen > MOB > Loading NPC > Loading Screen > Log out.

Can you feel the enjoyment!!!?

[Jobeto-Rin]

If you respond, also take into account I've never played any other MMO besides Final Fantasy XI. I've never even tried WoW. This is not a WoW vs FF argument. Nor is it a churn and burn vs. immersion argument. It's an options vs. no options argument.

Understood.

When you heard of a MMO game, (to me at least) immediate reactions of a game virtual world arose. From the detailed intricacies of what entailed a MMO game; An in-game clock, with it's own periods of night and day; applicable real world weather, snow, desert storms, etc etc.; Real life people oriented groups, shops, clans, gangs, entourages, posses etc.; To engaging environments, mountains, oceans, vast lands, cities and villages. You knew it would be massive and would take time to go through the necessities to create what you would deem as a virtual image of yourself and venture this world. The time invested wasn't relevant, it was the the thrill of experiencing the game and enjoying the e-world with other people and their own unique characters, that mattered.

Now fast forward to the aftermath of WOW. Players say they have no time, now it's just a game they throw hours into and just level up, vicinities filled with egotistical people trying to attain the greatest gear and highest level as quickly as possible, largest LS, all for bragging rights. No more dedication is required really, it's just become another game to play. MMO's are loosing it's essence.

I believe casuals, and the money they offered to game companies, swayed the change of this, but above is old school MMO's to me, it seems times are changing. There's so much more to say.

Money ruins so much crap man.

[Azurymber]

Understood.

When you heard of a MMO game, (to me at least) immediate reactions of a game virtual world arose. From the detailed intricacies of what entailed a MMO game; An in-game clock, with it's own periods of night and day; applicable real world weather, snow, desert storms, etc etc.; Real life people oriented groups, shops, clans, gangs, entourages, posses etc.; To engaging environments, mountains, oceans, vast lands, cities and villages. You knew it would be massive and would take time to go through the necessities to create what you would deem as a virtual image of yourself and venture this world. The time invested wasn't relevant, it was the the thrill of experiencing the game and enjoying the e-world with other people and their own unique characters, that mattered.

Now fast forward to the aftermath of WOW. Players say they have no time, now it's just a game they throw hours into and just level up, vicinities filled with egotistical people trying to attain the greatest gear and highest level as quickly as possible, largest LS, all for bragging rights. No more dedication is required really, it's just become another game to play. MMO's are loosing it's essence.

I believe casuals, and the money they offered to game companies, swayed the change of this, but above is old school MMO's to me, it seems times are changing. There's so much more to say.

Money ruins so much crap man.

Its also companies failing to realize how to make a profit these days.
You can:
A: copy the best guy
which almost always results in a failed product

or
B: Take whats good from the best guy and create something new and innovative.

This game was originally innovative and if released a year later would have probably been very successful.
ex. everyone says the world is copy/pasted, but if you explore you'll notice almost all the little nodes covered in 1-shot kill things are unique looking and not copy pasted in any way (cept coerthas)

with a change in devs it has turned into a complete copy of WoW though.

[Dargoth_Draconia]

Its also companies failing to realize how to make a profit these days.
You can:
A: copy the best guy
which almost always results in a failed product

or
B: Take whats good from the best guy and create something new and innovative.

This game was originally innovative and if released a year later would have probably been very successful.
ex. everyone says the world is copy/pasted, but if you explore you'll notice almost all the little nodes covered in 1-shot kill things are unique looking and not copy pasted in any way (cept coerthas)

with a change in devs it has turned into a complete copy of WoW though.

Wrong, With the new DEVs it is doing what you have said, taking the best things from other MMOs and making it their own and not being a WoW clone. I have yet to see them make it like WoW or any of the changes really making it like WoW. At the very least the game is more successful than when it started and is on the road to staying alive instead of dying out completely.

[Bled]

Understood.

When you heard of a MMO game, (to me at least) immediate reactions of a game virtual world arose. From the detailed intricacies of what entailed a MMO game; An in-game clock, with it's own periods of night and day; applicable real world weather, snow, desert storms, etc etc.; Real life people oriented groups, shops, clans, gangs, entourages, posses etc.; To engaging environments, mountains, oceans, vast lands, cities and villages. You knew it would be massive and would take time to go through the necessities to create what you would deem as a virtual image of yourself and venture this world. The time invested wasn't relevant, it was the the thrill of experiencing the game and enjoying the e-world with other people and their own unique characters, that mattered.

Now fast forward to the aftermath of WOW. Players say they have no time, now it's just a game they throw hours into and just level up, vicinities filled with egotistical people trying to attain the greatest gear and highest level as quickly as possible, largest LS, all for bragging rights. No more dedication is required really, it's just become another game to play. MMO's are loosing it's essence.

I believe casuals, and the money they offered to game companies, swayed the change of this, but above is old school MMO's to me, it seems times are changing. There's so much more to say.

Money ruins so much crap man.

+1 Couldn't agree more.

I tried explaining this same premise pry a year ago here in the forums.. lot more trolls back then lol

[Rhomagus]

Understood.

When you heard of a MMO game, (to me at least) immediate reactions of a game virtual world arose. From the detailed intricacies of what entailed a MMO game; An in-game clock, with it's own periods of night and day; applicable real world weather, snow, desert storms, etc etc.; Real life people oriented groups, shops, clans, gangs, entourages, posses etc.; To engaging environments, mountains, oceans, vast lands, cities and villages. You knew it would be massive and would take time to go through the necessities to create what you would deem as a virtual image of yourself and venture this world. The time invested wasn't relevant, it was the the thrill of experiencing the game and enjoying the e-world with other people and their own unique characters, that mattered.

Now fast forward to the aftermath of WOW. Players say they have no time, now it's just a game they throw hours into and just level up, vicinities filled with egotistical people trying to attain the greatest gear and highest level as quickly as possible, largest LS, all for bragging rights. No more dedication is required really, it's just become another game to play. MMO's are loosing it's essence.

I believe casuals, and the money they offered to game companies, swayed the change of this, but above is old school MMO's to me, it seems times are changing. There's so much more to say.

Money ruins so much crap man.

I don't agree that your conclusion applies to my experience of Final Fantasy XIV. In fact, I'd argue that the things you listed are actually in Final Fantasy XIV. I don't think I need to point them out to you, but I'll list what I do with my in game time.

I choose to fight mobs beyond the normal raptor grind. I choose to craft my own gear. I choose to watch cutscenes. I choose to record my cutscenes. I choose to write fanfictions. I choose to gather and hunt for materials. I choose to interact with other players regardless if I know them or not. I choose to teach other players who have never used a battle regimen the advantages of using battle regimens by walking them through it step by step. I choose to talk with varying people from all around the world (Egypt, England, United States, Greece, Netherlands, and Taiwan so far). I choose to have considerably deep conversations with these folks ranging from topics as varied as politics and gender roles to cats and pizza. I choose to roleplay when roleplayers greet me in /say. I choose to SP grind Toto-Rak at 25. I choose to SP grind Dzemael Darkhold at 45. I choose to watch these cutscenes when I'm not rushing to the boss. I choose to skip these cutscenes when I'm rushing to the boss. I choose to walk when I don't need to use my anima. I choose to use my anima when I'm needed somewhere. I choose to grind raptors at times. I choose to log in and not do anything but talk with friends sometimes. I choose to grind mobs beyond the 10 rank cap. I choose to grind in a light party. I choose to grind solo. I choose to do battlecraft/fieldcraft/ alone and sometimes with others. I choose to do local levequests. I'm dissapointed I don't have the choice to do them with a friend but when I do we share the anima. I choose to utilize the forums. I choose to not always check every thread created in the last day.

Not to mention your in game clock, weather, storms, groups, etc.

I'll choose to experience/watch the airship sequence/cutscene. I'll choose not to experience/watch the airship/cutscene.

I guess I play the game like I live my life. I get out of it what I put into it. What others do is their own choice unless it hinders on my or another's freedoms and I try to reduce the actions that I take that may hinder other people's freedoms.

None of my choices effect you or your enjoyment of the game unless you go out of your way to let them.

Your response derailed the topic btw and didn't answer the post.

As does this one:

Its also companies failing to realize how to make a profit these days.
You can:
A: copy the best guy
which almost always results in a failed product

or
B: Take whats good from the best guy and create something new and innovative.

This game was originally innovative and if released a year later would have probably been very successful.
ex. everyone says the world is copy/pasted, but if you explore you'll notice almost all the little nodes covered in 1-shot kill things are unique looking and not copy pasted in any way (cept coerthas)

with a change in devs it has turned into a complete copy of WoW though.

I think I'm done with this thread.

[Jobeto-Rin]

In fact, I'd argue that the things you listed are actually in Final Fantasy XIV.

Your response derailed the topic btw and didn't answer the post.

Yeah, I kind of did get carried away.

Your misunderstanding me. I'm not saying FFXIV doesn't have those above attributes (night/day stuff etc)
What I'm saying is that certain mechanics in this mmo (insta-teleports), are stripping away some of the involvement and immersion associated with those attributes, obviously because of the changing standards of a MMO.

Yes, I'm aware, personally subjective.

It is what it is.

I'm very sorry, but what question didn't I answer?