Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

You guy want stuff simple and easy to come across like WoW, travel included. I've said my peice and I'll leave it at that both sides are at a impass really so I'll just let it slide.

neither of us are "Convincing" the other or anyone else. Neither am I trying to convince you because that would be pointless, thats like trying to talk to a brick wall you have your opinion and I have mine. Your arguements are as silly to me as mine are to you.

To me it's not about logistics or making sense, hell not even really the immersion. It's having substantial content thats worth earning. It may be we don't know enough about the airship yet but it just seems like a cop-out for SE to run around present issues instead of fixing them. Such fast transportation shouldn't exist in MMO's without a heavy cost. In my opinion people have been spoiled by anima and now just expect things to play like a series of instanced areas.

I want a vast world with millions of places to explore, I don't want to walk for the sake of walking. I want to walk because I never know what lies around the next corner, I want a sense of adventure, I want to feel like the world was created to be a world not a series of areas I warp from at a snap of my fingers. People look at MMO's far too often like "Work" and thats what all these min/max time consumers are doing, they want to get the most work done in the least ammount of time possible.

Whats fun about that? I'll never know, you need to accept that there are others who don't share your viewpoint. Fast-travel is just a small part of the larger issue that is at hand and pretending like it's not going to effect the entire way the game developes is just being naive.

Think of what you're saying in your head while considering the other side. Then reconsider who has been the "brick wall".

When are you going to stop talking anyway? You're not even really on topic anymore. That's a good sign there is nothing substantial to debate anymore regarding this topic. Best to move on now and maybe create a new thread for the new issue you have with the direction of the game. There isn't enough of that. We need more mind numbing opinion threads where the OP believes their posts are the most unique diamonds of literary proportion.

[Azurymber]

Honestly I think the anti-instantaneous airship crowd picked a losing argument by saying it sacrificed immersion. It's a crappy argument. You're right. You can't force it upon somebody. Some people are attached to the personalities of their characters, some couldn't give a crap one way or the other and are just here for the quests and such. Nothing wrong with that.

I just think the simple argument is that the planned implementation makes the airships utterly pointless. Why not just add a teleportation NPC in each adventurer guild? It'd save development resources. I think the better argument is simply this: if the airships are going to be implemented, they should be content that actually serves a purpose, rather than being content that wastes development time/effort and is only there to do what a stock NPC model placed anywhere in the city could do.

The argument is fairly simple.

If you're ok with easy-modeing transportation under the choice argument.
Then logically you must be ok with letting people click a level up button
and sadly, logically you must be ok with bots. because they are just a persons choice to avoid work.

Im pretty sure no one is ok with botters (least i hope so cuz they are against ToS)

But the main point is if you start easy moding an entire game for the sake of convenience where do you draw the line? The mentality that people should be able to choose to fast-track through an MMO can lead to its death. You basically don't make it an adventure anymore, you make it a game based on efficient fast GRINDING. Thats kind of against the heart and soul of FF, a story heavy -adventuring- series. Again, what FF game had instant warps?

[Gennosuke]

I agree with OP.

I think there's a few points that could have been clarified further in the OP though.
I see people arguing over some points that do not conflict with OP's concept.

The point being made is that the game as an MMO needs to be immersive. I think no one can disagree to that. The issue is how and where are the appropriate places for immersion. No.. I take that back, immersion should be everywhere, the issue is how to tackle the issue of convenience.
This is where i will agree with OP, that the very concept of Airship that sets it apart from Teleporting or anything else for that matter is that your travelling through Air. If nothing will reflect that very fact and there is no experience involved, then why even bother with the Airship or even name it that? Surely you could set up some npc's in every city that warp you to each city for a fee. Airship is just that, it's an Airship, you are supposed to have an Airship experience or by it's very definition it is completely pointless, redundant and in reality is just another disguised form of teleporting. There should be times set for travel, and there should be an Air Travel flight experience.
By the same token, would you be happy if chocobo were insta travels too? Would it make any sense to insta travel through chocobos? Just rent a choco, and your instantly in a new location. No, it doesn't make sense and it completely beats the point of chocobos as a travelling method.

The other point is, I would agree with the other side that the flight itself should not be a long and/or tedious flight, have it somewhere in the middle, something long enough to enjoy the flight, and not long enough to be tedious/frustrating. it does not have to be a long ride. Then ofcourse, content on the airship would definitely add to the immersion as well and make any time spent on the Airship an enjoyable time. Who wouldn't enjoy a garlean airship hijack/battle?
Certainly, i would for sure want to see to improvements over XI airship system, i think there is room for a lot of creativity in an airship flight and the ideas for a fun ride are many.

Point is, Immersion and convenience do not conflict. Insta travel has it's places and uses, Airship on the other hand has it's own unique place and flavor and is supposed to have an experience to reflect that. You want to instant travel to another city? Anima is there, you dont want to lose your Anima? Request some npc's for warping. Just dont kill the Airship experience for the sake of convenience, let the immersion, experience, fun, lore takes it's place, and let the convenience take it's place.

This game is starting to feel like it's turning into a grindfest more than anything with all the requests for insta ports and the game will really suffer as a result. What's the matter with you guys? can't be bothered exploring anything this game has to offer? just raids and grinding? There really is much more to an MMO than that.
I agree it's frustrating to run all over the place due to poor design of the world and travel methods, but don't just kill off the concept of exploration and adventure.
I personally hate Anima for that reason, though again it's understandable in the current poor state and design of the world of Eorzea, it is not feasible otherwise, which is why i personally can't wait for redesign of the world to take place (hence my signature), then we can hopefully see people actually being bothered with exploring the land and enjoying it instead of whine for insta ports and convenience this and convenience that.

For longevity and overall success of the game, there should be some effort and places that are enforced upon players, or the game will turn boring and die off rather quickly. Just as long as those things are actually fun and challenging, not tedious, boring and frustrating. I do blame the state of the game. I hope time will fix this issue when more interesting content and a more dynamic and interactive world exists.

[Jynx]

We need more mind numbing opinion threads where the OP believes their posts are the most unique diamonds of literary proportion.

Sounds like someone needs to get off their high-horse.

You seem to think I'm trying to force my opinion on you by plainly stating it. Sorry man as long as SE keeps asking we will all give our opinions on any and all topics. It's a shame you think that people posting on a forum seems to be a bad thing, I do wonder why you are here then if you can't handle people not agreeing with you.

[PrettyPrincess]

I do wonder why you are here then if you can't handle people not agreeing with you.

Speak for yourself

[Jynx]

Speak for yourself

You obviously can't read, I've stated many times I respect everyones opinion. Am I not allowed to state my own?

[Azurymber]

Jynx has good points and doesn't seem to be being a brick wall.

There are 2 arguments here

1. Easy-mode the game, allow players to choose to do things efficiently (ex insta-travel), avoid a time sink game like FFXI
2. Leave time-sinks in, if you play an MMO you should be able to devote time, don't easy-mode things

both have pro's and con's

But SE has made a successful number "2" game and has failed to make number "1" even a bit successful for a year now.
Rationally if you have a product that is successful it makes sense to take the good things from it (and the whole mass world, sense of exploration, story,engaging world + lore, was praised in reviews for ffxi) and use those when you create a new product.
SE tried a different route, it didn't work, its not working. So why stick to it. FFXIV will have nothing competitive in it to make it stand out from other MMOs for well over 6 months since they are so focused on the job system. They have nothing "epic" planned either. At least nothing they have told us. I mean we are looking forward to ONE primal fight. FFXI had like all the summon fights... and they werent just fights. You got to use them as summons after if your were summoner.

SE needs to play to their strengths and to what makes Final Fantasy games successful
And that isn't grinding and instancing.
Its immersion, story, and "RPing"

[weeble]

The argument is fairly simple.

If you're ok with easy-modeing transportation under the choice argument.
Then logically you must be ok with letting people click a level up button
and sadly, logically you must be ok with bots. because they are just a persons choice to avoid work.

Im pretty sure no one is ok with botters (least i hope so cuz they are against ToS)

But the main point is if you start easy moding an entire game for the sake of convenience where do you draw the line? The mentality that people should be able to choose to fast-track through an MMO can lead to its death. You basically don't make it an adventure anymore, you make it a game based on efficient fast GRINDING. Thats kind of against the heart and soul of FF, a story heavy -adventuring- series. Again, what FF game had instant warps?

lmfao u must be a politician, you might as well call him a nazi and a terrorist too on top of that. how do u go from instant boat rides to botting and instant level ups. holy cow. u people know how to jump a gun seriously. it's a boat ride, i can't say it enough times. think of it as extra content. u dont' have to do it. just like u don't have to do pvp if they add it. or you don't have to go and waist time doing stupid season events that are USELESS after the first time doing them for sure. if u do it every year for years then well that is your choice ...but not making u do it. boats are the same, there might be content on them, other then that we don't need to be on them. how would u feel if the boat ride had agro mobs all over the boat and u had to fight the hole 10mins on boat instead of sit there? does u'r opinion change on the matter for long boat rides? it doesn't kill anything in game, i played enough ffxi, 700days of gameplay, 8, 75's ... same as this game i play all day all max and i can't possiblly see this changing anything bout making game harder or more time consuming outside of forcing people to afk for 2-10mins multiple times a day, everrrrrrry day, for years. but either way u'r complaint doesn't take presidence to what the future of game will be like cause even in ffxi the boats were dead after a year. they just did it right from start this time.

[AlexNiculaie]

Ah, the slippery slope tripe. Who cares about rational arguments when you can just use fear mongering tactics and hyperbole. Won't someone think about the children? Why, if you cut out useless standing around on a boat doing absolutely nothing, people are going to start marrying marmots and chocobos! This is what happens you let Miqo'te wear skimpy bikinis!

You know, the world doesn't actually exist in such extremes, right? One can make an adjustment for convenience without it nosediving into such ridiculous outcomes.

[Jobeto-Rin]

People are really disregarding the points Jynx is making.
He isn't trying to make you walk, just stating the consequences of Instant teleporting.

I support non Instant-Teleportation of any form.

It depreciates my involvement, especially when otherwise I'd be incessantly committed.

Even if it's mundanely monotonous, my perspective is they're only moments that provide a MMO it's "You are involved in my massive world" feeling.

Imagine fighting the last boss of a game, and killing it in 3 hits.
That is the same effect we are feeling here. Where is the challenge? How am I to be immersed in a boss battle when I just literally skipped the fight?

Please understand me juxtaposing these 2 here.

Yes, we ultimately enjoy the boss killing, but it's the journey we went through to achieve it that was fun and entertaining. Killing the boss is similar to arriving at a destination. The enthusiasm and mental/emotional immersion we experienced gave that achievement a feeling of worth-fulness.

Now instant teleportations (can we just say IT's?) doesn't necessarily kill immersion totally, it just affects it, moreso than anything because when a game has no real achievements and less in-game involvement, it's killing what little we could have atm.

Now forcing that upon players is harsh I would say, I see the flip side, nobody has time, it's boring yadda yadda....

But....since when were MMO's for casuals anyway?

Oh, thats right...when game companies discovered it's fast cash potential, and slowly began disregarding what MMO's are truly about.

Complete game immersion in a fantasy world.

You make time for it, it doesn't make time for you.