Does instant transportation effect game immersion?

[Altano]

I, and from what I see thankfully many others, actually consider the other side.

I think you're confusing "considering the other side" with accepting the other side as valid. I'm sure Jynx and those of us who agree have considered the other side. We just don't think it's a good idea for the game or the community.

[PrettyPrincess]

We just don't think it's a good idea for the game or the community.

You dont speak for the whole community

[Jynx]

First of all, this will never be achieved even if they tried. In cases like these one thing is always true: You were younger. 7 years ago you had a game that during that time made you feel good inside and now every game after that has to press up against that standard.

It's not going to be the same. So stop. It's a never ending spiral that won't stop til you accept that there is a change or another side to gaming now that developers need to conform and pay attention to.

and from what I see thankfully many others, actually consider the other side. I think that is something that is really being argued more than the threat of player's immersion. The shortsightedness.

I am not trying to cram FFXIV into FFXI's former flory (allow me to point out former) FFXI is a shell of itself as it has grown to accomidate the exact same crowd they are trying to accomidate for this game. I am far from one to see things with "Rose tinted glasses"

I know the exact reasons why I loved XI, and how they still remain the same. The beatifull vistas, amazing sights to be seen if you stray off the beaten path, earning my rewards. None of that Exists in XIV as it stands. Don't try and paint me as someone naive enough to think this is XI-2 because it's not, but that doesn't stop me from demanding them to at least have rewards and systems that are meaningfull and not just slapped in their because someone couldn't make it to grid on time to do whatever they wanted to do.

I've yet to hear the side of the story from the real casual player, all I hear is people telling me they ran out of their 100 anima and couldn't warp "The horror" Not many of my casual friends ever run out of anima let alone dip below double digits. If you can't complete everything you want within a play session start to think of ways to speed up your tasks or deal with the fact that you can only accomplish so much within a certain time frame. You all just want an easy way out to get the most our of your game, to do what? I'm not sure I don't know what the rush to 50 is all about there is nothing waiting for you.

I HAVE considered the other side of this, and I know it's sounded the death knell of many MMO's in it's time. Too many developers try to pander too the WoW crowd when even WoW never cattered to them at first, this is part of the problem people don't want to see.

It's easy to demand everything to be easier to do, it makes it so you can accomplish more in a shorter period of time. It's hard to keep content accessable, quick, easy while still offering a challenge and a reward. You know why?

Because someone will complain that it's too demanding, too time consuming, too hard. So then what do they do? They pander to the crowd and remove all the challenge from the game, that Haubergon +3 just doesn't feel as cool anymore when any Joe on the street has one. Being Rank 50 in multiple jobs isn't awesome anymore, it's the expected norm, being able to teleport to far off lands isn't something only you and a handfull of people brave and strong enough to earn the right to do isn't awe inspiring...because everyone can do it from the get-go.

People like you will never understand because you don't see the consequences of your actions, your not looking at the long term, you don't want too. You want everything now.
----------

Also I have never claimed to speak for the community, I only ever claim to speak for myself, I would expect you too do the same instead of cowering behind the fact that.

"Only ____ people post on this forum! Not everyone shares your views! hurp durp"

It's a two way street, their are many people who just plain don't care about the direction of the game or don't want to speak up. Let those people rot in silence I say...as the saying goes "Don't vote...don't complain about the results"

As far as support for either side of this arguement goes on the forums we seem rather even keel on who wants and who doesn't want the changes. Grow up and learn that because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean they are wrong. I respect your opinions but I dissagree with them, I don't resort to personal insults to get my point across.

I will not stop giving the developers my opinion as long as they keep asking for it, I hope you do the same.

[BruceyBruceyBangBang]

I am not trying to cram FFXIV into FFXI's former flory (allow me to point out former) FFXI is a shell of itself as it has grown to accomidate the exact same crowd they are trying to accomidate for this game. I am far from one to see things with "Rose tinted glasses"

I know the exact reasons why I loved XI, and how they still remain the same. The beatifull vistas, amazing sights to be seen if you stray off the beaten path, earning my rewards. None of that Exists in XIV as it stands. Don't try and paint me as someone naive enough to think this is XI-2 because it's not, but that doesn't stop me from demanding them to at least have rewards and systems that are meaningfull and not just slapped in their because someone couldn't make it to grid on time to do whatever they wanted to do.

I've yet to hear the side of the story from the real casual player, all I hear is people telling me they ran out of their 100 anima and couldn't warp "The horror" Not many of my casual friends ever run out of anima let alone dip below double digits. If you can't complete everything you want within a play session start to think of ways to speed up your tasks or deal with the fact that you can only accomplish so much within a certain time frame. You all just want an easy way out to get the most our of your game, to do what? I'm not sure I don't know what the rush to 50 is all about there is nothing waiting for you.

I HAVE considered the other side of this, and I know it's sounded the death knell of many MMO's in it's time. Too many developers try to pander too the WoW crowd when even WoW never cattered to them at first, this is part of the problem people don't want to see.

It's easy to demand everything to be easier to do, it makes it so you can accomplish more in a shorter period of time. It's hard to keep content accessable, quick, easy while still offering a challenge and a reward. You know why?

Because someone will complain that it's too demanding, too time consuming, too hard. So then what do they do? They pander to the crowd and remove all the challenge from the game, that Haubergon +3 just doesn't feel as cool anymore when any Joe on the street has one. Being Rank 50 in multiple jobs isn't awesome anymore, it's the expected norm, being able to teleport to far off lands isn't something only you and a handfull of people brave and strong enough to earn the right to do isn't awe inspiring...because everyone can do it from the get-go.

People like you will never understand because you don't see the consequences of your actions, your not looking at the long term, you don't want too. You want everything now.
----------

Also I have never claimed to speak for the community, I only ever claim to speak for myself, I would expect you too do the same instead of cowering behind the fact that.

"Only ____ people post on this forum! Not everyone shares your views! hurp durp"

It's a two way street, their are many people who just plain don't care about the direction of the game or don't want to speak up. Let those people rot in silence I say...as the saying goes "Don't vote...don't complain about the results"

As far as support for either side of this arguement goes on the forums we seem rather even keel on who wants and who doesn't want the changes. Grow up and learn that because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean they are wrong. I respect your opinions but I dissagree with them, I don't resort to personal insults to get my point across.

I will not stop giving the developers my opinion as long as they keep asking for it, I hope you do the same.

You do a lot of talking, but you still don't do a great job at convincing others that your argument is superior when you can't stop talking about XI. Why bring WoW into the mix as well? Who was pulling from WoW?

While I am supposedly cowering behind something that you apparently think I stand for, this is definitely news to me, you just keep bringing up points that further support that you are worried of XIV breaking away from that strong sense of nostalgia from your has been video game. I loved XI. I loved everything you brought up, but this isn't about XI and how it was developed to be a time sink that supposedly gave you senses of accomplishment and allowed you, yourself, to be immersed.

We're talking about XIV. A game that is still being redeveloped in 2011 that understands there is a different way to do things that accommodates different types of players and lets itself stretch a little in order to be user friendly. We're still trying to figure out why some people are blue in the face defending all player's immersion when it only affects them. How is this your business? It isn't. It's been stated several times throughout the thread. You are given a choice. Don't want to port? Walk. Don't want to skip the airship ride? Don't skip it and enjoy the ride and content with others, me being one of them, who enjoy it.

Immersion is personal. You or others speaking for what is good for the community needs to change to what is good for you and you alone.

[Jynx]

They should get rid of needing to deliver supplies to camps, I'm sure thats where anyone with 0 anima probably spends it all is doing those silly turn in quests and expecting the reward to just be from the crafting itself.

People who want more anima want to be able to level faster for the most part. unlimited anima would speed up the leveling process exponentialy.

[Nabiri]

Anima/instant transportation does ruin my sense of immersion (which for me, I NEED to enjoy a game) even though it has some lore behind it.
It's just too strange and... boring.. and.. over-powered, for lack of better words, for people to just be popping in and out of anywhere they need to be.
I understand it being in the game now, when there isn't much reason for real transportation, because there really isn't much to see or many places to go.. but I had always thought and hoped that anima would be temporary until real forms of travel came along. I really miss traveling by mount, ships, vehicles of some sort, and seeing other people traveling - perhaps meeting people along the way.
XIV is definitely about the destination, not the journey, and I don't like that at all.
It DOES make the world feel so instanced and small and lonely in my opinion.
I liked that XI had many forms of transportation and that there was still usually a tiny bit of walking involved. We got to see and experience the world on a daily basis. XIV is just "town -> camp -> camp -> camp -> town -> logofffromboredom."
One of my favourite things in a game is exploration. Once the maps are redone this should be something exciting for me finally. It does help to have a REASON to explore though... and the ability to be anywhere at any time kind of kills things.
It would have been better for immersion for me if teleporting was a mage spell or something.

An issue someone (well, a few people), brought up about the airship staying instant when we get the option for non-instant, is if two (or more) people are traveling to a party or something together, people like me who want to enjoy travel are going to be *****ed at for taking so long. >.> While I could give in and just take the instant route.. after some time it will destroy my immersion.. my feel of the game world being a place, and it will just be one of the little things that adds up and up and lowers my enjoyment of the game.

Anima isn't the only thing that may kill this game for me...

When XIV started I didn't even consider that I might not like the game. I'm really not too picky and I love SE's games.
Now, with so much of this "handing out everything to people on a silver platter" attitude SE has towards the game, it may drive me away from it honestly. I'm just not enjoying myself with the way things are going. Only still here out of hope. I honestly never thought I'd have to hope for one of their games.
In the meantime of waiting to see what happens to XIV, I've gone back to an old MMO which has a gorgeous world and lore so exciting that it was very hard to stay away from the game for 2 years.

I feel like a deserter even though I haven't really left XIV. ^^; I feel bad because I love SE and I used to feel like I believed in them. I'll wait and see what happens, but if they keep handing out instant gratification this game will never hold my interest.

Edit: Not to mention chars being $3 per... >.> And I like to have more than one character.. Sometimes I wonder if SE is TRYING to drive me away ; ; lol

[Payadopa]

Thanks to Anima I can travel around the world in an instant. There is no real sense of scale anymore. I so doesn't feel like a 'real' world anymore. It's a pity. Anima is more than enough.

@Nabiri: I agree. It's just town->camp->camp->camp->town->logout.

[PrettyPrincess]

AmyRae and Brucey have won this thread already.

I wonder if people like you ever have experiences like this. I hope someday we can all enjoy our adventures in Eorzea and remember what it means to be an adventurer.

I experience this everytime I play. My playstyle is enjoyable. Everyone has a different playstyle. EVERYONE PLAYS A GAME DIFERENTLY Jesus christ they're giving everyone different options depending on how they play I do not understand how that is harming anyone.

[Rutelor]

The mistake resides in associating the problems of this game (or any other) with a lack of immersion, and then, associating that lack of immersion with a lack of correspondence to reality.

Games don't have to be realistic in any form to be immersive.

The fact is that every game that ever was is based in well-crafted obstacle management. Without obstacles, there's just instantly achievable goals. And the moment you achieve your goal, the fun is over. (Also, the easier the path to achieve the goal, the less fun there is to be had.) The other fact is that every game that ever was edits, stylizes, and distorts reality, since its point is not to be reality, but a reminder thereof. The same happens in the theater, or in the movies. Nobody gets to witness anybody's every little move or to hear them think. Nobody in real life breaks into song and dance when they feel a strong emotion. And the Hong Kong martial-arts honcho, without bruises in his face and body after taking that beating, is as immersive and etertaining as we want him to be.

Chess is enormously immersive, and so are Go, Bridge, Poker and Mahjong. They actually are so stylized and abstracted that you really have to make an effort to remember that they all are basically representations of warfare and combat. You don't see bruises, blood, broken bones. The game is distilled to the abstracted basics of the encounters they try to replicate, and nobody minds that.

Nobody minds it because the obstacles to winning are considerable, and the management of those difficulties are what make those games fun. It's the same with every successful video game. Also--it goes without saying--the success of games depends on how elegant the abstraction is, not on how close to reality they remain.

Games are not about just tagging the tail to the donkey. They are about doing it blindfolded. Tie your left leg to your companion's right one, or jump into a sack and win that race. Don't let that egg off the spoon as you stride to the finish line. Remove the difficulties, lower the obstacles, avoid the hurdles, and the game is gone.

Rut

[DNO]

The mistake resides in associating the problems of this game (or any other) with a lack of immersion, and then, associating that lack of immersion with a lack of correspondence to reality.

Games don't have to be realistic in any form to be immersive.

The fact is that every game that ever was is based in well-crafted obstacle management. Without obstacles, there's just instantly achievable goals. And the moment you achieve your goal, the fun is over. (Also, the easier the path to achieve the goal, the less fun there is to be had.) The other fact is that every game that ever was edits, stylizes, and distorts reality, since its point is not to be reality, but a reminder thereof. The same happens in the theater, or in the movies. Nobody gets to witness anybody's every little move or to hear them think. Nobody in real life breaks into song and dance when they feel a strong emotion. And the Hong Kong martial-arts honcho, without bruises in his face and body after taking that beating, is as immersive and etertaining as we want him to be.

Chess is enormously immersive, and so are Go, Bridge, Poker and Mahjong. They actually are so stylized and abstracted that you really have to make an effort to remember that they all are basically representations of warfare and combat. You don't see bruises, blood, broken bones. The game is distilled to the abstracted basics of the encounters they try to replicate, and nobody minds that.

Nobody minds it because the obstacles to winning are considerable, and the management of those difficulties are what make those games fun. It's the same with every successful video game. Also--it goes without saying--the success of games depends on how elegant the abstraction is, not on how close to reality they remain.

Games are not about just tagging the tail to the donkey. They are about doing it blindfolded. Tie your left leg to your companion's right one, or jump into a sack and win that race. Don't let that egg off the spoon as you stride to the finish line. Remove the difficulties, lower the obstacles, avoid the hurdles, and the game is gone.

Rut

tell that to the insanly popular angry birds game. not hard no obstacles all you do is sling a bird over and hope you hit something yet it sold over 10 million.

Morale of the story hard does not equal fun for everyone. and truthfully hard does not equal sales as the wii killing everyone is proof off. and WoW killing everyone is also proving.

You do not need to add stupid timesinks for a game to be fun. Im glad with anima and insta airships SE has finally learned that.

Other then that i agree that games do not have to be realistic to be immersive.