Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Adire]

So, I just queued as PLD for DD to help a friend get it done for GC quests.

Immediately upon the dungeon starting, I get this from a dps:

"no skipping anything"

Being the rebel I am, and the fact that my friend just needed the dungeon done asap (and I'm the tank, so obviously the game is designed for me to lead the pace of the dungeon), and the fact that he demanded I bow to his whims rather than ask me to, I pulled the first room into the crystal buff. The WHM, who is the other dps' friend, is not holying. The other dps, who is a BRD, is not aoeing.

This is with about 9 mobs or so pulled. Everyone is single targeting everything and the WHM isn't holying (really don't have issue with healers choosing to not dps when it isn't necessary, dps should know when its more effective to aoe than single target though), so it takes a long, long time for the first pack to die.

Then the DPS pulls optional mobs, he gets combative when I ask him to aoe, and my friend decides to leave.

In short, this is a simple plea/reminder to those DPS out there who think it's their job to pull mobs and to dictate the pace of a run, especially in a tie between interests:

- You are not the tank, so if you want to be the tank and pull mobs and have more weight in determining when/how mobs should be pulled as a role, please queue as a tank.

-Only a majority decision among the players in the group or agreed upon compromise offsets the tank role's inherent, implied rights as the intended mob pulling role. If you're a dps or healer pulling mobs, you are doing what was intended for tanks to do. If there is a deadlock in how to proceed, and there are 2 roles that are not meant to pull vs one role that is meant to pull, obviously the role meant to pull (tank) should be the one to continue pulling.

Disclaimer for people who don't want to read my entire post: Not saying at all that tank players are an exception to the following two things.

- You are not the owner of any person. Ask, do not demand.

- Your personal rights do not trump other people's rights. A tank's role rights to pull mobs and how to do it do trump a DPS or healer's rights to pull mobs in a tie however. Role design and community attitude prove this in practice. In a tie, the tank's decision about how the group proceeds in pulling mobs (a tank job) has the most weight as such, given that doing that is their job. If you disagree, don't disapprove of that healer or dps who runs around and pulls mobs in the future.

If you want the tank to do extra pulls for experience, please ask nicely. I for one almost always do extra pulls for your experience if you ask nicely. Demanding it, then refusing to do your job well when you get it, is very silly and makes you look silly.

Edit: Please go to this post if you want to see the posts I addressed in my OP originally (moved it there to reduce the clutter in the OP):

snip

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Please read this before resorting to personal insults and incorrect assumptions about my character, people:

To be more specific about that, I was planning to go back and get the side rooms if he had changed his attitude. We were working on the non-sealed-room mobs in the first part of the dungeon anyways, I prefer to clear them out before standing on the circle door opening thing to get the other mobs. Can't remember for sure if there is one of those in the first part of the dungeon, but I was doing my routine first pull nonetheless.

We offered compromise as I said during this trash fight, by asking him to aoe large packs (don't think that's an unreasonable request personally), and he responded aggressively with "i only have one aoe, thank you and goodbye" and refusing to do so.

Me and my friend would have taken more time than we would have liked there by going to the side rooms, but I was willing to. However, demanding without even a "please" that we take a considerable amount of longer time due to that AND no aoe going out was the breaking point for me.

Unfortunately, as I've said in the past, it takes a lot for me to initiate a kick on someone. My friend was gone by the time I was at that point, so I wouldn't have had the votes. Being nice is detrimental to myself sometimes :/

I've never seen so many overly hostile people on a forum community, wow.

And for everyone saying DPS have as much right to pull optional mobs as tanks have to run past optional ones, please look into the "implied rights" concept.

DPS weren't built to pull mobs efficiently, neither were healers. Tanks were. This, along with the fact that it's commonly frowned on for dps and healers to pull, proves that there is an implied preference for tanks to be tiebreakers on the parts of both the community and SE. How often do you applaud or prefer healers and dps for pulling instead of tanks, assuming the tank is good and not being extremely slow?


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Thanks everyone for your input, even the smarmy arrogant posts and ignorant ones who didn't read.

I believe I'll stop tanking for anyone except friends. I try to do my job, and do it effectively, and get nothing but insults, blame, treated like a slave, and unfounded character assumptions. I get irked by someone making demands of me as if I'm a slave, and I'm "entitled".

I mention that I offer reasonable compromise and get told to shove it after offering the compromise, and that gets ignored by people. They offer no compromise. Who cares about that, let's all just bash the OP without reading anything and call her the entitled one, amiright?

You people wonder why tanks are a rarity, and why they're sometimes moody or paranoid. Maybe it's because of how you treat them. Well, you reap what you sow. You get a community with far fewer tanks than everyone else, you get 30+ minutes in low level dungeon queues.

I will not, however, stoop to the level that people are trying to justify. I am not going to pull mobs and coerce tanks into doing what I want by abusing roles if I don't get my way. You can go ahead and encourage the behavior though if you want, but it's painful to see that that behavior is justified by this community. Though I cannot say I'm surprised.

[Ayuhra]

While I understand your point the DPS you're talking to probably don't read the forums.

[Adire]

The one in the dungeon probably doesn't. I've given up on that person being a decent human being though anyways.

I'm sure entitled dps do read the forums though, the chances are high :P

[Sanghelios]

You are not the owner of any person.

Your rights do not trump other people's rights.

But as a tank you are allowed to do it?

[Ayuhra]

The one in the dungeon probably doesn't. I've given up on that person being a decent human being though anyways.

I'm sure entitled dps do read the forums though, the chances are high :P

I doubt it.

Now stop posting so I have more room to comment spam the thread and let everyone bask in my magical glory.

(But please do come back and protect me if anyone hates me for it)

[Dorander]

But as a tank you are allowed to do it?

Of course they are. The tank controls the pace of the dungeon. I will (and have) let someone die if they pull extra mobs. Oh look, I forgot how to flash or provoke. If they don't like the pace I'm setting, level up a tank and run the dungeon yourself.

[Kassiekane]

Whenever I join a dungeon as a dps, I'm just thankful I actually got a damn que. Tanks pulling extra mobs is a bonus.

However, I am mindful that people join dungeons for exp, so I will always try to go for a full clear when queing as a tank.

[Adire]

But as a tank you are allowed to do it?

Well, as a tank you're intended to determine what should be pulled and when it is pulled, no?

The game is sort of designed that way O.o. it's the tank's job.

Besides, if we want to get specific and technical here, it was 2 wishes against 2 wishes. Me and my friend vs him and his friend. So who should get to decide what happens?

If your answer is anything other than the tank, I don't think you understand how the tank's role works.

[Kiroh]

But as a tank you are allowed to do it?

They never even reached a point (cutscenes) where the OP and the DPS disagreed on how to run the dungeon, the dps simply refused to participate when he learned there was a disagreement.

[Chambers]

A lot of people mistaken the forums for a blog.