Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Hiruke]

Funny how everyone against the op are dps's. When you have to wait for the queues, either kick the tank and hope you get a pushover that will bow to your whim, or suck it up and do your job. Unless you want to tank in your robe or leather armor.

Just because of what the "main class" says on the forum? I tank lots of dungeons, as I implied in my prior post if I'm remembering right. OP is basically saying dps shouldn't be entitled, only tanks can be entitled, and that's kind of a jerk way of looking at it. I think everyone should try to get along. If someone in the party is a jerk, that's on them, not their role. There are lots of jerks from each role, because the players are still people, and people are jerks.

[Whiteroom]

Entitled players, please stop being entitled?

[Adire]

Entitled players, please stop being entitled?

That's essentially what my OP is saying and what my posts throughout the thread are saying, despite the title's seeming otherwise.

In this situation, which mobs to be pulled was the disagreement. A tie in wishes ensued. The DPS and healer attempted to step out of their roles to forcefully receive their demands and ignore compromise by the DPS pulling mobs and the healer refusing to heal, while the tank (me) offered compromise and was rudely told no, and decided to continue doing my job.

It's not entitled or asking special privileges to do your job in the face of a deadlock if compromise is offered. It is however entitled to try to take over someone else's job or refuse to do your job to get what you want.

Just reminding folks of that

[Hiruke]

That's essentially what my OP is saying and what my posts throughout the thread are saying, despite the title's seeming otherwise.

Probably should have written it and titled it differently then, right?

[Adire]

Probably should have written it and titled it differently then, right?

Yep! As I've said before though, title editing is not possible. I also did not have the benefit of hindsight at the time.

And I possibly expected too much that people would value the content of my posts over the cover of the book. First impressions are important of course though, and I'd edit the title if I could.

Just because of what the "main class" says on the forum? I tank lots of dungeons, as I implied in my prior post if I'm remembering right. OP is basically saying dps shouldn't be entitled, only tanks can be entitled, and that's kind of a jerk way of looking at it. I think everyone should try to get along. If someone in the party is a jerk, that's on them, not their role. There are lots of jerks from each role, because the players are still people, and people are jerks.

Edit: Also, it's not asking for special privileges if a tank pulls or decides how to pull in a tie with no compromise as they are simply doing their job. It is asking special privileges however if a DPS pulls and a healer threatens to not heal if the tank doesn't submit to their demands.

I also do not condone tanks ignoring the majority or saying no to people who ask for clears like decent human beings, as mentioned in my OP and throughout the thread.

I'm not "basically saying DPS can't be entitled while tanks can be". You are misunderstanding or misreading if you think so. What I am saying is that you should treat people with respect, especially if you want something, and you should let tanks do their jobs, especially if no one can agree on anything.

[TetsuyaHikari]

Yep! As I've said before though, title editing is not possible. I also did not have the benefit of hindsight at the time.

And I possibly expected too much that people would value the content of my posts over the cover of the book. First impressions are important of course though, and I'd edit the title if I could.

Oh, don't worry. I read the book. I just didn't think it was a best seller, that's all.

While you have good intentions (as shown in your opening statement), you don't exactly convey that well through your choice of words. A lot of the remarks you made really sounded more like backhanded comments to entitled players which would be all well and good, if you, yourself, didn't make it look like you were one too, given your pretentious and/or holier than thou attitude.

tl;dr: OP thinks they are right and everyone who disagrees is wrong, even though opinions aren't supposed to be right or wrong.

[EinherjarLucian]

OP: Sorry you've had such a hard time with runs with aggressive DPS. I main heal myself, so I've seen the abuse. However, on the flipside, when I go in as a DD, I at least try to ask politely if we can do a full clear. It doesn't hurt to ask. Think of it this way, though: a DPSer has just had to wait 30+ minutes to even get a chance to enter a dungeon. So literally, every ounce of extra XP they can squeeze out of the dungeon offsets the hellacious wait they've had to face. I'm not saying you weren't taking that into consideration, just please do keep that in mind. I was in two dungeon runs today where the tank completely ignored my (polite) requests to do full clears. I didn't push the issue, but it was incredibly frustrating, as we easily left 40,000 or more XP on the table, which I had to go grind on my own on hunting logs just to level up, because I damn well wasn't going to wait another half hour to queue up. It happens, just... ugh.

I've played every role and have leveled every job in the game to 50 except DRG and MNK (those are next!), so I totally understand both your frustration and theirs. Nobody likes pushy people in general. But you're right... people being jerks is the number one reason why tanks (and healers!) are so rare.

Anyways, hope you have greater success and fewer encounters with jerks. Good hunting!

[Adire]

snip

Thank you for posting this . I think we're a lot alike here. I main NIN and have 3, soon to be 4 DPS classes leveled to 50. I understand the frustration DPS have with the long queues and slow experience. If I want a clear, I always ask nicely, like you. This DPS was an exception though of course, he queued with his healer friend so therefore had a healer queue rather than a DPS queue.

If you had the run you mentioned with me as the tank, I would have given you the clear, because you asked rather than demanded. Politeness is such a rarity these days unfortunately...and to see so many people dogpile me for having a small bad reaction to being mistreated is quite disappointing, especially given that I did all I could to salvage things. So thank you for being understanding and non-biased. Like you, I understand the plight that DPS have all too well. Also like you, I do not treat tanks like crap because I feel bad for myself, so thank you for that too.

And I wish you the best of luck in your future runs as well

[Sapphic]

Personally I would have let him eat the mobs he pulled. Then probably left.

No-one has the right to demand that someone cater to their sole wants. Then trying to blackmail someone into getting their own way is pathetic. Two wrongs don't make a right, but neither does giving in to someone trying to bully you into doing what they want you to do isn't either.

Personally when I was levelling DPS jobs in DF, if the tank asked for clear whatever, I would respond that it is their choice, I'll go along with it. And as tank I'll ask if they want to get xp or just get through. But as soon as someone starts demanding something, their opinion becomes void. And I'll pull how the rest to, if they don't like it, they can leave. If they start blatently sabotaging the run, they get reported and kicked. If you don't stand up to them and show their actions have reactions they will not learn and continue to do the same.

Rare times I've had to kick someone, I've warned them in chat of their actions that is causing the kick. I don't just kick (unless someone is AFK for an age or DCd for a long time). I want them to know exactly why so they can adjust the next time.

There is a shortage of tanks in DF, we all know that, then demanding and blackmailing them into making them do what you want dissuades new tanks from continuing thus escalating the shortage problem.

Luckily enough it's been very rare, kinda countable on one hand from 100s of runs in DF that i've had to deal with entitled brats.

OP, you had a lot more tolerance than I would have had.

[MicahZerrshia]

There is a shortage of tanks in DF, we all know that, then demanding and blackmailing them into making them do what you want dissuades new tanks from continuing thus escalating the shortage problem.

Honestly I usually have this problem with tank. They think since they are the tank they control the run. If they want a full clear they are going to get one and if they don't they wont do it. Because they feel as the tank they control the pace and clear rate of the dungeon, the opinions of the other 3 ppl be damned. And there is little you can do about it since if you kick the tank you may never get a new one, so in the end the tank gets what the tank wants which just feeds the tank entitlement issues. I'm actually surprised we don't see more tanks just due to how easy they have it with queues and issues like this. I seldom, if ever see it from dps and only on occasion from a healer.

At the same time, dps shouldn't pull just because he wants more, I will let the pt get eatin, reset and boot that dps if they are like that. It should be a consensus.