Entitled DPS, please stop being entitled

[Adire]

So, as it's come up a lot in this thread, can I just ask why any DPS (or anyone) would WANT a full clear for exp? "They have to wait a half hour/hour obviously they want their exp" has come up a bunch, but you get less that way than doing a speed run and then going back to Fates/Levequests.

Like, okay, fate farming is boring. Sure. And Levequests get tedious. Plus you can't learn how to play your character in a party without doing dungeons. So yes, clearly you want to do a lot of dungeons leveling. Fine. And when you do them you want exp.

But here's the thing: You get a lot of exp for dungeon completion and for boss kills. You get pretty good exp for random trash too--but the exp per minute is going to be lower for random trash than just doing fates or leves. If you're doing full clears, you are, therefore, slowing down your leveling, not speeding it up.

As someone who has started leveling a bunch of DPS classes to 50 to kill time until expansion, and who mains a DPS class, I actually hate it when another DPS asks for full clear. It just makes it take longer for me to get to that next job/class quest that I'm always trying to push toward as personal milestones. With the semi-exception of letting seeds hatch in AV. If you do it right it doesn't really take any more time and it's 10x the exp. If you're killing seeds off for your 'speed run' you're just kind of a dick. But that's the only exception.

On topic: Anyone who read the thread would see that the DPS ran ahead to pull, made a 5 mob pull into a 9 mob pull, and then refused to use his 'one AoE', making it take painfully long. Whenever I get in groups like that I generally tell them to have fun, apologize to any innocent members of the party and leave. If I'm healer or tank I try to remember to ask any innocent DPS what their server is so I can party with them and requeue when I'm able to make it up to them if possible.

I think pulling mobs off the DPS rather than letting him die, and saying, 'Okay we can do a full run, but only if you actually use your AoE skill' is actually going above and beyond what could be expected of anyone dealing with that level of toxicity regardless of their role.

I wasn't going to post on this topic anymore due to the amount of shaming and hostility shown towards me and lack of reading going on, but I want to thank you for posting this gem and coolheaded, informed response Krylo.

Maybe if they don't read my post, they'll read yours. I did indeed pull mobs off him, and did indeed offer him the option to AoE to get his full run. That should not be unreasonable given that me and my friend were there to get it done ASAP, would have taken more time to do the clear for him, and even more so if he didn't AoE. Demanding that he get his kills is one thing, but then demanding in addition to that that we suffer through a considerably longer dungeon because he doesn't want to AoE is just insane.

Their party made demands of us, pretty much told us "you will do it our way or we will grief you, and we're going to make you watch us single target every single mob even in large pulls". Our party quickly responded after a moment of deliberation after being essentially treated equivalent to objects that we'd be fine with it if he would use his AoE (as he should have been doing since we were pulling large groups, him pulling them included), and asked him to, not demanded that he do it.

We offered compromise and treated them as humans, they offered nothing but stubbornly saying it would be 100% their way and treated us as slaves, yet some people are finding more fault with me and finding me to be entitled. Even after I've said so many times already that I always do clears if asked nicely or if outnumbered by people who want clears.

Offering reasonable compromise, wanting to be treated like a human rather than like an object, and doing clears if treated like a human or if outnumbered does not make me entitled. Sorry people.

snip

I will not be responding to everything you said in your post, as some of it has already been addressed in my other posts and is pretty much just a repeat argument,

You assume your feelings are of some great importance to me, and you assume wrong.

but Ceodore, if you're admitting that my feelings are not important to you, then perhaps you should not be instructing me to care about the feelings of someone who is making demands of me and acting in a very directly disrespectful manner. You should care about feelings if you're going to tell other people to care about them, and I did care about the guy's feelings as evidenced by what I'll mention below again anyways.

And as Krylo said above. What I did was demonstrative of someone who is attempting (and dare I say succeeding to some degree at least?) to be reasonable in the face of extreme toxicity. The compromise, my self control, my consideration of their wishes, my getting the mobs off him when he decided to be obnoxious and pull mobs, all evidence of that. My very temporary quietness was evidence of a person who has been wronged deciding how to react, thinking about what to say, taking a moment to get over the initial treatment I received, discussing with my friend what to do, not evidence of me forfeiting my empathy.

You can assume the worst and say it was me being brash, but all the other pieces of evidence I've mentioned do not take any assumption to realize they are coolheaded reactions in the face of that toxicity, and those many pieces of evidence overwhelm the one, rather assumptive and therefore fragile evidence of the opposite, even if you don't want to take my word for it and were correct in your assumption that I was quiet because of ill will.

Hopefully your original, disproportionate response to my OP came from a misunderstanding of what happened. And hopefully the insults and negative unfounded character assumptions you have been flinging at me have as well. Krylo did a nice, short, and accurate summary of what occurred, if you read her post and still stand by your previous posts, then I can safely say we will not be finding common ground at all here, as I would strongly feel at that point that you do not have the same values I have.

I almost always get at least one commendation when I tank, and as I said, am always more than willing to do clears if treated with respect or if the majority wants one. So I am not as predisposed to having a rotten attitude as you seem to think, and most people who know me well actually think I'm a very nice person, and I do try to be. In fact, you're talking to someone who empathizes even with inanimate objects often :P

The community would do well to remember that every person has a point where they have had enough though. And it would do well to not push people to that point.

[Kikoten]

This thread is an emotional roller coaster. I'm still new to tanking, but what I'm getting from this whole thread is that tanks are supposedly a "customer service" role to the rest of the group, just like healers. I feel pretty powerful as a tank, and sometimes denying service feels pretty darn good.

I've always hated the leader aspect of tanking. I don't think I'm a great leader, and the responsibility of making decisions that affect the group makes me balk a little. Despite that, I love the thought of being an axe-wielding berserker.

How do you deal with trolls as a tank? I know how to deal with them as a healer (hehehe).

[XgungraveX]

This thread is an emotional roller coaster. I'm still new to tanking, but what I'm getting from this whole thread is that tanks are supposedly a "customer service" role to the rest of the group, just like healers. I feel pretty powerful as a tank, and sometimes denying service feels pretty darn good.

I've always hated the leader aspect of tanking. I don't think I'm a great leader, and the responsibility of making decisions that affect the group makes me balk a little. Despite that, I love the thought of being an axe-wielding berserker.

How do you deal with trolls as a tank? I know how to deal with them as a healer (hehehe).

just like dps if they want pull everything in the room without asking if the group ok with it simply not attack at all you wont get aggro,tank dies ,mob resets

[Adire]

just like dps if they want pull everything in the room without asking if the group ok with it simply not attack at all you wont get aggro,tank dies ,mob resets

Unfortunately, if the healer decides to heal the DPS, they will get aggro as well. Some dps know this and still get their way by trying to force the the tank to save the healer, and I typically do.

The other dps can just simply not attack though, as you said. The tank's only option is to let the healer die in order to prove that point, which really doesn't sit well with me personally.

[Evangela]

most people do low level content in speedrun fashion nowadays. so they probably like DPS who tries to clear as fast as possible more than some tank full of ego who takes too long to pull everything and also refuses to help the others after they pulled because they can't wait for the sluggish tank.

I vote kicked some tanks like that and the others agreed to dismiss them.

[XgungraveX]

Unfortunately, if the healer decides to heal the DPS, they will get aggro as well. Some dps know this and still get their way by trying to force the the tank to save the healer, and I typically do.

The other dps can just simply not attack though, as you said. The tank's only option is to let the healer die in order to prove that point, which really doesn't sit well with me personally.

oh i competently agree with OP on the first page i was just saying if the roles were reversed, its amazing that people are defending the dps in this thread even when HE let his intentions right were right off the bat.

[Adire]

oh i competently agree with OP on the first page i was just saying if the roles were reversed, its amazing that people are defending the dps in this thread even when HE let his intentions right were right off the bat.

Yeah I know. You've been considerate of my feelings throughout this thread, and I really appreciate that!

I was just making a general statement to explain to anyone who happens to read that tanks have the least control over that situation without doing something immoral. DPS can just not attack mobs, healers can just not heal, but tanks have to rely on healers to not heal a dps who is pulling and being disruptive. It's pretty clear you know this already, my quote of you was just to add on to what you said for people who may not know already.

But yeah, it is amazing, and sad :/. Why some people are backing up and trying to explain and justify the immediate disrespect he showed still continues to confuse me.

[Battlewrench]

Group efforts requiring communication and compromise... Go figure. Let's not forget its a two way street though.

[Takfloyd]

Just popping in here to say that as a damage dealer, I had countless frustrating experiences when I was new to the game where the tank would just charge ahead, refuse to explain anything, and flame me for not being able to keep up, making mistakes, or accidentally pulling enemies, even though he could obviously see the newcomer symbol on me and my low level and gear and I tried multiple times to ask politely if he could take it a bit slower.

I'm pretty sure a lot of other people have the same experience as me. It's absolutely no surprise that they get fed up with it and end up being rude to tanks who actually would have listened.

[Skeith-Adeline]

These threads are ridiculous... I understand why the majority of players who know about the forums avoid it.