Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[ShinryuReishiki]

Could you check Ironworks i130 chest vs Demon Robe i120 chest? I never did get the Demon Robe, mostly because I play BLM far far more than SMN, but I'm curious to see how much that DET is worth vs the 5 INT loss in terms of raw damage (ignoring the other benefits of the i130 chest, which are definitely there).

Augmented (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QN6Y)
82 MD 52 PD 663 Int 343 Det
Auto: 79-88
Ruin (80): 301-332
Bio (40): 150-165
Burning Strike (120): 232-257
Ifrit Auto (60): 125-138


Demon (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QN6Z)
82 MD 52 PD 658 Int 374 Det
Auto: 81-90
Ruin (80): 303-334
Bio (40): 151-166
Burning Strike (120): 234-259
Ifrit Auto (60): 128-141


Auto: 85.5 - 83.5 = 2
Ruin: 318.5 - 316.5 = 2
Bio: 158.5 - 157.5 = 1
Burning Strike: 246.5 - 244.5 = 2
Ifrit Auto: 134.5 - 131.5 = 3


Adjusted for crit, the Demon robe still comes out slightly ahead between these two builds.

Augmented (17.42%)
Auto: 83.5 * 0.8258 + 83.5 * 1.5 * 0.1742 = 90.77285
Ruin: 316.5 * 0.8258 + 316.5 * 1.5 * 0.1742 = 344.06715
Bio: 157.5 * 0.8258 + 157.5 * 1.5 * 0.1742 = 171.21825
Burning Strike: 244.5 * 0.8258 + 244.5 * 1.5 * 0.1742 = 265.79595
Ifrit Auto: 131.5 * 0.8258 + 131.5 * 1.5 * 0.1742 = 142.95365

Demon (16.27%)
Auto: 85.5 * 0.8373 + 85.5 * 1.5 * 0.1627 = 92.455425
Ruin: 318.5 * 0.8373 + 318.5 * 1.5 * 0.1627 = 344.409975
Bio: 158.5 * 0.8373 + 158.5 * 1.5 * 0.1627 = 171.393975
Burning Strike: 246.5 * 0.8373 + 246.5 * 1.5 * 0.1627 = 266.552775
Ifrit Auto: 134.5 * 0.8373 + 134.5 * 1.5 * 0.1627 = 145.441575

[Judge_Xero]

One difficulty in comparing is that Ifrit seems to use the Physical Damage stat of the weapon rather than Magic Damage, as it does about 70% the damage a spell would at the same potency. Since I'm not really sure how that should be handled....

Yeah, I'm not really sure how Magic VS Physical Damage works. I just thought that mobs had lower MDEF than DEF so magic hit harder. Then we get tossed something like Raiton which is magic and hits like a physical attack.... So maybe it is just based on MD vs PD and Maim and Mend. (Are pets effected by Maim + Mend?)

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I think when I was doing my pet weights I did it wrong. I was comparing the stats to raise SMN DPS 1% and PET DPS 1% and not just the damage themselves. I don't know if that's a good way to do it, but I just figured since Ifrit was on a static 3s GCD VS SMN on a dynamic GCD it might be better.

[Dervy]

Auto-Attacks value Determination twice as much as they do for standard Ability Skills, keep that in-mind, so it could also apply for Egis.

Maybe Egis are quite literally like "external players" and are mechanically the same as we are? (In terms of stat-scaling at least)

[ShinryuReishiki]

Auto-Attacks value Determination twice as much as they do for standard Ability Skills, keep that in-mind, so it could also apply for Egis.

Maybe Egis are quite literally like "external players" and are mechanically the same as we are? (In terms of stat-scaling at least)

Crit rate seems to translate directly, at least.

Hmm, that makes me curious about the impact on book smacks as well. That's the one scenario we have where dropping Int for Det is a straight gain rather than a balancing act, so maybe the impact is more significant than one would expect given the relatively low damage of book smacks.

Could you check Ironworks i130 chest vs Demon Robe i120 chest? I never did get the Demon Robe, mostly because I play BLM far far more than SMN, but I'm curious to see how much that DET is worth vs the 5 INT loss in terms of raw damage (ignoring the other benefits of the i130 chest, which are definitely there).

Edit: posted here http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2956452

Need to do more tests on a Crit vs Det build with respect to Ifrit's damage, which is what my post was referring to.

The problem is it would take a loooooot of testing. 3 minute parses are far too little data to come to any conclusion. I've had a set with 600 Crit produce lower crit rates in a T10 than a set with 520; RNG is going to be RNG, no matter how we stack the odds. We would need to test each set for hours, and in comparing full rotations, human error also becomes a significant factor.

A more reasonable option, I think, would be to find the raw damage ranges a set produces, then adjust the damage based on a perfect RNG crit rate. Especially in a case like Ifrit, since it attacks at a completely fixed rate (Unless we put on Skill Speed...).

For example, comparing Burning Strikes from my set A and B from above with the Crit rate in the sets.

Set A (477 Crit = 14.82%)
249 * 0.8518 + 249 * 1.5 * 0.1482 = 267.4509

Set B (602 Crit = 23.85%)
226.5 * 0.7615 + 226.5 * 1.5 * 0.2385 = 253.5101

[Dervy]

Hmm, that makes me curious about the impact on book smacks as well. That's the one scenario we have where dropping Int for Det is a straight gain rather than a balancing act, so maybe the impact is more significant than one would expect given the relatively low damage of book smacks.

If you play a book-smacking Summoner, Determination will definitely have a larger impact on damage.

The best way, really, would be to found out how Egi's exactly work, then create a model or a simulator which averages out RNG like Critical Hit Rating.

[Minorinz]

Det definitely scales with Int but Crit is kinda a chance stat other than being a damage amplifying stat. Need to do more tests on a Crit vs Det build with respect to Ifrit's damage, which is what my post was referring to.

[Judge_Xero]

DET probably wont be a big deal for Book Smacks.

With the Dreadwyrm Grimoir, 77 STR raised my Book smacks by a whopping 8 DPS

30 DET didn't seem to be enough to tip the scales towards a 1 DPS gain, although I think it was close.

That's with 100% uptime too, which isn't typical on fights.

[Sanguisio]

STR is the book smacking stat ^^ we have higher str than BLMs and is why we auto attack and they dont bother.

[Dervy]

Also, if I remember correctly, Casting spells disrupt Auto-Attacks, so they wouldn't get any AA's whilst fire spamming.

[Havenchild]

Also, if I remember correctly, Casting spells disrupt Auto-Attacks, so they wouldn't get any AA's whilst fire spamming.

It does but if the end of a cast animation lines up with an auto attack, the auto will still happen.