Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[Sleigh]

OP are you sure about Shadow Flare being separate from the server? My current testing is showing it's like any other DoT and is completely tied to the universal 3s timer. There aren't double ticks available with good refreshing timing as you suggest, unless I'm missing something.

It is a separate DoT tick from B2/M/B but it's just delayed on the display and as far as I can tell it's still at the same rate in practice.

Edit: I'm not sure what's going on with it, been watching it the last few minutes.

Seems to have its own duration independent of universal DoTs, this is true. It won't mold down or up to the latest DoT upon cast, as standard DoTs actively do. But, the DoT timer is not related to its duration (IE you can get a tick at any second of the duration unlike Bio which will always give a tick at 15s, 12s, 9s, etc of the timer remaining), and unlike B2/M/B it follows its own timer you can't tinker with by casting it or not, it's either related to the universal tick just delayed slightly or it's its own separate tick, still universal in a sense.

Regardless I've never gotten a double tick.

[Havenchild]

OP are you sure about Shadow Flare being separate from the server? My current testing is showing it's like any other DoT and is completely tied to the universal 3s timer. There aren't double ticks available with good refreshing timing as you suggest, unless I'm missing something.
It is a separate DoT tick from B2/M/B but it's just delayed on the display and as far as I can tell it's still at the same rate in practice.

Edit: I'm not sure what's going on with it, been watching it the last few minutes.

Seems to have its own duration independent of universal DoTs, this is true. It won't mold down or up to the latest DoT upon cast, as standard DoTs actively do. But, the DoT timer is not related to its duration (IE you can get a tick at any second of the duration unlike Bio which will always give a tick at 15s, 12s, 9s, etc of the timer remaining), and unlike B2/M/B it follows its own timer you can't tinker with by casting it or not, it's either related to the universal tick just delayed slightly or it's its own separate tick, still universal in a sense.

Regardless I've never gotten a double tick.

I will admit you can't reliably replicate it but like you said, it's separate entirely and procs randomly according to it's own timer. If I'm not mistaken, the maker of ACT stated it's NOT on a universal clock even on it's own timer but possibly adjusting per ShadowFlare cast.

So more like the last tick of the previous one procd, then after you recasted it, it procd immediately again within the same second.

Various reddit posts explored the fact that ShadowFlare in particular is quite a unique skill.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...parser_plugin/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...w_discoveries/
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ming_research/

[Sleigh]

If there is any known timing to replicate this, even at low reliability, please LMK. I've been trying both at the end of my Shadow Flare and just trying to reapply right before, during, and after the tick.

[Havenchild]

If there is any known timing to replicate this, even at low reliability, please LMK. I've been trying both at the end of my Shadow Flare and just trying to reapply right before, during, and after the tick.

The common belief amongst those who repeatedly tested it was that the ability to replicate it fell with a personal timer from the user that was determined at the moment of loading into an instance.

Try reloading into your location to see if the timer adjusts correctly. Thats the only advice I could give here. I'll update the wording on that detail.

[pandabearcat]

That is so dumb lol.

So its still a static 3 sec timer whose offset is predetermined, and not dependent on when you cast it?

[Havenchild]

That is so dumb lol.

So its still a static 3 sec timer whose offset is predetermined, and not dependent on when you cast it?

All circle AoEs follow the rule that they go off a pulse of the caster. The 3 second timer follows after the *tick* of the users pulse. This is basically how sacred soil works, if you miss the actual pulse tick, you won't get the sacred soil buff until the next tick is supposed to occur post 3 seconds. The pulse in question is determined from when you load into an instance or area.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ming_research/ -> Info here.

So ultimately it, if you were to reapply shadowflare on the tick exactly, the formal SF will tick and then the one that comes to replace it will tick as well in theory.

Sleigh was saying he tried that but it didn't actually do it, while I've seen other people claim that it's true and can be done.

EDIT: I'm starting to think this is under a perfect world scenario instead of reliably happening in game. Editted the OP regardless with a link and a disclaimer for that.

[Minorinz]

Gear specs:

Time: 2:53

Int: 668
Det: 419
Crit: 495
SS: 371
----------
Myself: 385
Ifrit: 171

Time: 2:55

Int: 670
Det: 394
Crit: 533
SS: 371
----------
Myself: 400
Ifrit: 177

Time: 2:57

Int: 682
Det: 305
Crit: 602
SS: 422
----------
Myself: 387
Ifrit: 168

Det vs Crit with relative Int build.
Parsed multiple times to get an average for each. I haven't tempered with the data.
Rotation was the exact same as well. I closed the parses couple of days ago and tried to retrieve but they seemed to be corrupted. They showed that ifrit was at 100 dps and I was 20 dps less than the original result at 3 mins which was odd (if you know a way to retrieve original parses for pets please advice)...
Also, please note that those results are -5/-10 from the original result due to me being a slow poke at ending the encounter.

[Dervy]

The best thing to do, really, is gather A LOT of Data to determine DET vs INT on Pet Damage. Ifrit has an ability which is on a 6s C/D, 120 Potency or something right? If so, set up a controlled environment where your INT + WD is static and vary the value of Determination, then plot it on a graph, then do the same of Intelligence. At the same time, also manually cast Ruin and record the data.

Why?


You want to check whether or not Determination scales differently for Pets than it does to our actual player characters. You'd either want to multiply the recorded min/max values of your Ruin II's by 1.5, or divide Ifrits damage by 1.5 (so they're the same potency), before plotting on a Graph however. If the slope of both graphs are different, or if the Ifrit Graphs Slope is higher, then it means Pets would scale more with Determination.

You'd also want to do the same check with Intelligence. So have a static Determination + WD, but varying INT, to check if Ifrit scales Intelligence differently.

Ultimately, you want to see if there's a difference between "INT and DET" and this will affect how you should build your gear sets, as well as the summoner weights.

If I'm wrong, someone correct me and I'll delete this post, lol. (Never touched smn's, just read)

[ShinryuReishiki]

One difficulty in comparing is that Ifrit seems to use the Physical Damage stat of the weapon rather than Magic Damage, as it does about 70% the damage a spell would at the same potency. Since I'm not really sure how that should be handled, I'm just looking at how the damage changed as a percentage. I just picked 4 sets, tested 10 minutes each. Not enough to show any detailed relationships, but at least a general picture.

Int seems to have the same impact across the board. The damage differences vary within a small range, but that could easily be due to how the game rounds values; would need a lot more data to really say anything there.

As for Det, it seems to impact Burning Strike to the same degree as spells, but Ifrit's Auto-Attack sees twice the impact; Ifrit's Auto-Attack is half the potency of its Burning Strike, but the resulting damage gained from Det is seemingly equal. I expected Bio to maybe show a larger change than Ruin as well, but the impact seems about equal there.


Set A (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QMXR)
82 MD 52 PD 658 Int 388 Det
Ruin (80): 305-338
Bio (40): 152-169
Burning Strike (120): 237-261
Ifrit Auto (60): 129-142


Set B (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QMXS)
82 MD 52 PD 658 Int 202 Det
Ruin (80): 277-306
Bio (40): 137-150
Burning Strike (120): 215-238
Ifrit Auto (60): 108-119


Set C (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QMXQ)
82 MD 52 PD 616 Int 388 Det
Ruin (80): 286-317
Bio (40): 142-157
Burning Strike (120): 221-244
Ifrit Auto (60): 120-133


Set D (http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/QMXO)
82 MD 52 PD 616 Int 202 Det
Ruin (80): 261-288
Bio (40): 131-143
Burning Strike (120): 201-222
Ifrit Auto (60): 100-111



Set A vs Set B (Int equal @ 658, Det -186)
Ruin: 321.5 - 291.5 = 30
Bio: 160.5 - 143.5 = 17
Burning Strike: 249 - 226.5 = 22.5
Ifrit Auto: 135.5 - 113.5 = 22

Ruin: 321.5 / 291.5 = 1.1029
Bio: 160.5 / 143.5 = 1.1184
Burning Strike: 249 / 226.5 = 1.0993
Ifrit Auto: 135.5 / 113.5 = 1.1938



Set A vs Set C (Det equal @ 388, Int -42)
Ruin: 321.5 - 301.5 = 20
Bio: 160.5 - 149.5 = 11
Burning Strike: 249 - 232.5 = 16.5
Ifrit Auto: 135.5 - 126.5 = 9

Ruin: 321.5 / 301.5 = 1.06633
Bio: 160.5 / 149.5 = 1.0736
Burning Strike: 249 / 232.5 = 1.0709
Ifrit Auto: 135.5 / 126.5 = 1.0711



Set B vs Set D (Det equal @ 202, Int -42)
Ruin: 291.5 - 274.5 = 17
Bio: 143.5 - 137 = 6.5
Burning Strike: 226.5 - 211.5 = 15
Ifrit Auto: 113.5 - 105.5 = 8

Ruin: 291.5 / 274.5 = 1.0619
Bio: 143.5 / 137 = 1.0474
Burning Strike: 226.5 / 211.5 = 1.0709
Ifrit Auto: 113.5 / 105.5 = 1.0758



Set C vs Set D (Int equal @ 616, Det -186)
Ruin: 301.5 - 274.5 = 27
Bio: 149.5 - 137 = 12.5
Burning Strike: 232.5 - 211.5 = 21
Ifrit Auto: 126.5 - 105.5 = 21

Ruin: 301.5 / 274.5 = 1.0984
Bio: 149.5 / 137 = 1.0912
Burning Strike: 232.5 / 211.5 = 1.0993
Ifrit Auto: 126.5 / 105.5 = 1.1991

[Sleigh]

testing

Could you check Ironworks i130 chest vs Demon Robe i120 chest? I never did get the Demon Robe, mostly because I play BLM far far more than SMN, but I'm curious to see how much that DET is worth vs the 5 INT loss in terms of raw damage (ignoring the other benefits of the i130 chest, which are definitely there).