Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[Dervy]

About time someone made one for the Summoner. Good job on the thread!

Now all we need is one for the Bard and we're good to go!

[Judge_Xero]

One thing I've been thinking about because of comments from Sleigh and SunnyHirose on another thread is how the potency of the dots should be considered, and not sure if HavenChild might want to include it in the guide.

Here's is what I mean about the dots.

Bio 40 Potency/tick @ 3s over 18s. There is a very high probability that you will cast the spell part way into the server tick, say 1.5s. This cuts the Dot timer down to 16.5s right off the bat. How many server ticks can you get into it now? -> only 5 @ 40 potency or 200 Potency.

The chances of either repeating this or clipping the dot are very high, so high up the point that overall I think it changes the potency of the dots, since it only takes 1 second to alter the dot duration. 17s, 23s, 29s

Bio 200 Potency
Miasma 265
Bio 2 315

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This would be fine of course if each dot carried an individual timer that starts on cast, but it doesn't.

[Xashyu]

About time someone made one for the Summoner. Good job on the thread!

Now all we need is one for the Bard and we're good to go!

Teach me avalen senpai! ;-;

[Dervy]

INT vs DET: The global argument. (Spellspeed can’t wait to get in this action)
Widely contested as to which is better, these are both the main modifiers of your damage as of 2.55. From testing, INT will modify the damage more of Ruin I/II and Fester than DET will. However, DET is a bigger modifier on DoT damage than INT. This was previously tested in-game by using a Book of Spades (ilvl110) vs the High Allagan Book of Casting (ilvl115). The difference between these books was documented by many users as a very slim margin of 3-5 DPS in favor of the High Allagan Book of Casting.

I think I'd like to extend on this a bit more.

With our old Damage Formula, (WD*0.2714745 + AP*0.1006032 + (DET-202)*0.0241327 + WD*AP*0.0036167 + WD*(DET-202)*0.00108 - 1), we estimated Determinations value for both the Summoner and Black Mage to be in the 0.28x Range, a Weapon Damage weighting of 6.5x - And 0.33 DET with 9.X for Disciple of War classes.

With recent findings of how Determination scales with our Main Stat AP (Attack/Magic Potency), Determinations value has actually increased far more substantially than we initially thought, respectively, a jump from a Determination weighting of 0.327 to 0.439 for Dragoons. This pattern will follow suit for all jobs.

So going back to the Book of Spades vs Allagan Book of Casting debate. If we use my guestimated Summoner Weights of:

WD: 5.536
INT: 1.000
DET: 0.422

The High Allagan Book of Casting only has a weighting of 1.3 greater than the Book of Spades.

If we used the previous damage formula to calcuate weights, the High Allagan Book of Casting would have a weighting of around 10 greater, not including Critical Hit Rating obviously, but this should prove why there's such a small damage difference between the two books.

**note** They're guestimated because I used made up variables with a Formula that doesn't even work for the Summoner, but that should be a rough estimate of what the WD/DET Weighting should be for the Summoner.

[Havenchild]

One thing I've been thinking about because of comments from Sleigh and SunnyHirose on another thread is how the potency of the dots should be considered, and not sure if HavenChild might want to include it in the guide.
Here's is what I mean about the dots.

Bio 40 Potency/tick @ 3s over 18s. There is a very high probability that you will cast the spell part way into the server tick, say 1.5s. This cuts the Dot timer down to 16.5s right off the bat. How many server ticks can you get into it now? -> only 5 @ 40 potency or 200 Potency.

The chances of either repeating this or clipping the dot are very high, so high up the point that overall I think it changes the potency of the dots, since it only takes 1 second to alter the dot duration. 17s, 23s, 29s

Bio 200 Potency
Miasma 265
Bio 2 315

--------------------------------------------------

This would be fine of course if each dot carried an individual timer that starts on cast, but it doesn't.

I actually also think this way when considering when to clip a DoT. Before adding it in, I would like to better explore further if you were in fact getting a single tick less within the final 3 seconds by clipping appropriately to maintain your DoTs from falling off and how that relates to maintaining your DPS.

I have no idea how you would accurately test this though. While you could simply watch the DoT and record the amount of ticks it does, that does not entirely showcase imo how your DPS is impacted from clipping in the 3 second area, and that weighed against, how letting your DoT fall off for a fraction of a second but re-applied and logged just in time for the server tick. That's kinda what I was inclining to in my previous post about when to recast a DoT. I would argue that mid - fight it may be impossible to even do this properly on any level.

[Judge_Xero]

I feel it would be impossible as well since you are forced to sometimes to prematurely refresh your Dots.

All things considered I think this should be addressed as a QOL issue for all dots if they keep the server ticks instead of individual timers. Maybe something as easy as adding 2 seconds to the Dots to account for this variance as its a significant difference for SMN overall.

So probably not worth adding it to your info, but rather I'll just post it in a new thread as a QOL issue for dots in general.

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Edited: Lol, I'm dumb. Not sure what I was thinking about but you still get all your ticks regardless.

0s - 1.5s (tick), 4.5s (tick), 7.5s(tick), 10.5(tick), 13.5(tick), 16.5(tick) - 6 Ticks
0s - 2s (tick), 5s (tick), 8s (tick), 11s (tick), 14s (tick), 17s (tick) - 6 Ticks

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It is just a clipping issue not knowing when the ticks will happen.

[Dervy]

I have no idea how you would accurately test this though.

Myself and Sunny turn the DoT clip into a percentage. (TimeLeft_DoT - Animation_Lock)/3, then multiply this number by the the damage of a tick.

[ShinryuReishiki]

For openers, I use a bit of an in between of the traditional and Bio openers. The plus of this opener is having 2 DoTs ticking immediately, as well as getting a second Bio under Raging Strikes (Clipping initial Bio at 1-2s), but I can't really say it's better/worse than the traditional or Bio openers; I think it's all very close... Just putting it out there as a consideration.

This is with Ifrit-egi.

X-Potion > Raging Strikes > Bio II (Hit as boss is pulled) + Obey during cast > (Move towards boss) Bio > Rouse + Spur > Miasma > (Move closer if still needed) Swiftcast > Fester > Shadow Flare > Enkindle > Ruin II (X-Potion end)> Poison Pot > Ruin II > Bio > Fester (Raging Strikes end) > Ruin > Ruin > ...

[Hakmatic]

Yo we wiped 2 minutes in. Hak-1 min on pb guys. Avalen- 27 minutes on enkindle guys :/

[Sunako]

What you think about using swiftcast? Shadow flare cast time is only 0.5 sec longer than recast time. In 5 minute fight you save 2.5sec that is worth of one ruin. After all that is only 1 - 1,7 dps increase. I think it is not worth use it after opener for shadow flares if you are not moving while casting it. Sometimes your dots may drop out at the same time like if miasma and bio2 have 3 sec left. It is worth cast bio2 -> swiftcast miasma so you can maintain both of your dots that have cast time? I usually save swiftcast for mobility so I can apply dots while moving.