Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[Sleigh]

Lately I've been using that style of opener, seems to work fairly well; all of my personal bests have been after I switched openers, but that doesn't mean much honestly. I feel like the opener ends up being fairly insignificant as long as you're not doing something weird like not putting up DoTs at all.

Pre-cast SF, Swift R3 (RS + 3D), R2 (F + P), R2 (ED + DWT), R2 (AF + Pot), R2 (Rouse + Spur), R2 (Enkindle + F), B2, M, B (DF), R2 (F), SF (Contagion), ...

I put it all on a spreadsheet somewhere to compare to other openers, I think it was like ~130 potency higher than Sleigh's around the 30s mark if you were able to pre-cast SF? Could be wrong, was just something I did to pass the time at work. I'm not sure how standard our NIN's Trick Attack timing is, but with this opener, I'm able to get all DoTs, Enkindle, and DF off during Trick Attack. Being "ahead" on AF CD has been nice in some situations as well.

I'm not really a math guy and I'm not trying to defend the opener everyone likes to quote but if it's 130 potency higher than the opener in question, doesn't that make it less total potency since the opener everyone quotes has 2 remaining stacks (IE a 300 potency Fester ripe and ready) vs 1 stack remaining for yours? I know the opener I use literally can't do its fourth Fester until 35s in.

As you said though, SMN opener doesn't mean much really. One Deathflare or Fester crit and you're doing more than other openers that pull, it's barely worth getting into any argument over. Just as long as you work with your group's Litany and TA, at the least ensuring you hit Enkindle + 3D during TA (3D's worth more than Deathflare + Fester put together when Contagioned, after all).

[alphamax112]

Question : If we put 3D under RS+Pot+TA+BL but we Contagion when all of those buff is over. Which DoTs does the ACT count after Contagion? Buffed ones or unbuffed ones?
I heard Bard's DoTs extension use unbuffed ones when they're extended outside of buffs window.

[Sunako]

I'm not sure how standard our NIN's Trick Attack timing is, but with this opener, I'm able to get all DoTs, Enkindle, and DF off during Trick Attack.

Ninjas trick attack should be after 5th global if I remember right. It also depends. Some ninjas want use it instantly. You can sync 3d with Trick attack whole fight since both have 60sec cd.

[Sleigh]

Contagion doesn't snapshot, it just extends whatever was on there. Contagion is independent of what DoTs you currently have up. It counts this way on ACT.

Iron Jaws from BRD doesn't extend VB/WB, it restarts them, so it's purely based on which buffs you have and which debuffs are up on the enemy as you use Iron Jaws. ACT also takes this into account properly.

[OneWingedSora]

Openers are so insignificant to end parses especially on long duration fights like A3S. My best run(1270 w/o AST/Brd) had no Garuda up during the opener because I suck at this game.

Though I am interested to see the math comparing both openers if possible.

[neiluj95]

I was bored so I made a spreadsheet even though I don't play SMN much: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

The "wat" opener is what I personally use, and the Ruin III opener was a variation I grabbed from an A1S clear vid. I probably screwed up the calculations/buff timings/everything since I haven't actually labbed them out.

[alphamax112]

I was bored so I made a spreadsheet even though I don't play SMN much: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

The "wat" opener is what I personally use, and the Ruin III opener was a variation I grabbed from an A1S clear vid. I probably screwed up the calculations/buff timings/everything since I haven't actually labbed them out.

Although I'm not a math guy, just wanna say that we can't always start earlier than -3.00s in some fights like A4S. Any delayed or hardcasted Shadow Flare/Ruin III (outside of DwT) will make some differences

[neiluj95]

Yeah, I'd have to make a separate spreadsheet for those openers. A bunch of the openers I posted can't be adapted to include Shadow Flare after the pull.

[ElasmoFan]

Just hit sixty and was looking for a guide to go by. I noticed the one at the start of this topic as well as https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...d.tui1gcr1y6ze this one here. Wondering if there's a preferred one or if they are basically the same?

[Havenchild]

Just hit sixty and was looking for a guide to go by. I noticed the one at the start of this topic as well as https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...d.tui1gcr1y6ze this one here. Wondering if there's a preferred one or if they are basically the same?

They have essentially the same information but he went a little more thorough in theorycraft explanations both in explaining some SMN abilities and BLM vs SMN comparisons which has lead to a simpler tone in explanations here of the same things vs. a heavier thorough explanation in his guide. Some parts of information are unique to both of these guides, but both help bring out the best you can in the class. This thread is more evolving in terms of learning new things as time goes on (more content is released / strategies explored) than the reddit page he linked his guide too originally for example.

Don't feel one guide/thread is better than the other. Both are very great resources.

Also added Hai-Hai's Guide & Cryshulvo's Video guide to the main page for people seeking a visual representation under useful resources: Video