Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[pandabearcat]

I think your ticks are off.

Assuming no spell speed (cause we're given to understand ticks and gcd will scale with it now? so it is the same relatively).

Previously you would do

[2.5] - Bio II apply
[5] - Miasma apply
[5.5] - Bio apply
[6+] - all 3 dots ticking

So we can generalize the amount of damage things do, by prorating the ticks till 6 seconds

Bio II does 3.5/3*35 = 40.83 pot
Miasma does 1/3*35 = 11.66 pot (ignoring miasma direct damage for now)
Bio does 0.5/3*40 = 6.66 pot

Total is roughly 59.16 pot

With the thingymajig, instead we get 2 full ticks of all 3 dots, for a total of (35+35+40)*2 = 220.

We also get 2 ruins for 380 total pot.

Subtracting the previous we get ~320 pot.

Even if miasma direct damage didn't apply we'd get 300 pot which is a wash.

Advantages:

1. Can reapply Bio during RS for a bigger boost than versus a buffed ruin (48 total vs 16 total bonus)
2. Saves us mana, though not necessarily that useful when you consider we Aetherflow all the mana back anyway, so not really a bonus.
3. Obviously good for add bane.
4. Quicker sflare application. Whether or not you precast this ends up saving you a bunch of gcds.
5. Aetherflow 10 sec quicker (since you don't need to wait for 3rd fester)

Disadvantages

1. We can't make fun of tri-disaster anymore for being useless.
2. Possibly not actually a dps gain - because as long as dots have full uptime, saving time applying dots ends up being a lower and lower actual dps increase.

[Havenchild]

snip

I read your math but I am not convinced. Largely it seems like you are looking at it from a GCD point of view and not the potency that you are getting on the tick.

Right between that Bio II application and that Miasma application is gonna be 1 server tick where Bio II is solely ticking for 35 potency.

The next server tick, you are very likely to catch both Miasma and Bio for a total of 110 (All three DoTs). More to the point if you factor in any kind of precast of Bio II.

Which means the only difference between Bio II -> Miasma -> Bio I + Fester vs Tri Disaster -> Ruin I -> Ruin I is 75 (ticks you gain from Miasma and Bio you gain on the first server tick) + 160 2 ruins = 235

235 doesn't beat a 300 potency Fester +20 application of Miasma to warrant the AF cost. You would have to at least get 3 Ruins to beat a Fester if we factored out the Miasma application potency. This is of course assuming Tri-D doesn't have some initial hitting potency as well as us needing to add at least three skills to the opener.

[pandabearcat]

stuff

You say "very likely" etc, I say "find the average case and remove randomness from your model".

Essentially the prorate on Bio II means, there will ALWAYS be one tick, and a SLIGHT chance of 2 ticks.

Similarly, for miasma, there is a decent chance of 1 tick, but not guaranteed, which you already agree with.

When taking the average case, we can assign expected values to the damage, and the expected value is not "very likely" it is "average case", which means out of 100 bosses you'll maybe get 90% with 2 ticks and 10% with 1 tick, but the model already takes that into consideration.

I'm not sure what the deal is here.

Lets give another example, a simple one, with just 1 dot.

I cast my dot, then wait 4.5 seconds.

So basically you have

[0-2.5] - no dot
[2.5 - 7] - dot

Now how much damage did that dot do?

It has a chance of two ticks (if first tick is between 2.5 and 4 sec, or to be more precise if the first tick is between -0.5 and 1 sec, so that the second tick with dots is between 2.5 and 4 sec), and chance of 1 tick (if first tick is between 4 sec and 5.5 sec, or, to be more precise, if the first tick is between 1 and 2.5 second, so that the second tick with the dots comes up between 4 and 5.5 sec).

So instead of going, at 7 seconds, it has a 50% chance of 1 tick and 50% chance of 2, you say, okay, the time the dot is active is 7-2.5 = 4.5 seconds.

This is equivalent to an average case of 4.5/3 = 1.5 ticks, and we multiply damage. Will you ever get 1.5 ticks? NO. But you will get 1 tick 50% of the time and 2 ticks 50% of the time.

This is an appropriate method of finding expected value of dots when their application times do not sync up...otherwise you use terms like "very likely", and you have fuzzy math.

EDIT: I also want to clarify why I chose 6 seconds as the "stopping point". At 6 seconds you are guaranteed EXACTLY 2 ticks, no more, no less. So, we can guarantee 2 ticks for the tridisaster model. By also prorating to 6 seconds, we guarantee that our model of "ticks every 3 seconds" now syncs up, regardless of how we applied our dots, so we no longer have to prorate anything. We assume at that point onwards all dots are ticking for both models.

[Havenchild]

So basically you have

[0-2.5] - no dot
[2.5 - 7] - dot

Isn't this assuming 0 precasting? So literally, The tank pulls, THEN I decide to use Bio II?

When in actuality what I do, is let's say at 4 seconds before the mob is pulled, Im already popping RS + POT + Casting Bio II. So I mean unless by some terrible stroke of luck, I just missed the DoT tick by micro seconds, I would get a first tick in that 0 - 2.5 window a Bio II dot tick and then by roughly 4 - 5 seconds I have all 3 up.

I guess the difference between what I'm saying and what you're saying, largely seems when do you actually count 0 seconds.
When the encounter starts? or when the first DoT goes up.

I use the first DoT (which falls in that 0 - 2.5s window) and work with potency per sec while if I'm not mistaken, you are using when the encounter start time and looking at it from a potency per GCD.

[Judge_Xero]

Oh, I didn't know that 3D was going to be using Aetherflow and not just a CD and/or spell. That definitely changes things. (but TBH I was mostly messing around with the above statement since we don't fully know how it all will work)

I think your ticks are off.

Assuming no spell speed (cause we're given to understand ticks and gcd will scale with it now? so it is the same relatively).

Previously you would do

[2.5] - Bio II apply
[5] - Miasma apply
[5.5] - Bio apply
[6+] - all 3 dots ticking

So we can generalize the amount of damage things do, by prorating the ticks till 6 seconds

Bio II does 3.5/3*35 = 40.83 pot
Miasma does 1/3*35 = 11.66 pot (ignoring miasma direct damage for now)
Bio does 0.5/3*40 = 6.66 pot

I'm still confused about the whole pro-rating dot ticks, but wouldn't you just pro-rate Bio 2 and the rest would always be up by the 2nd tick regardless?

Bio2 = 52.5 (17.5 + 35)
M = 35 + 20 for application
B = 40
Total: 147.5 + Aetherflow going to Fester = 447.5

[TraeSnow]

That is actually my only concern regarding SMN for HW. BLM will be getting Astral/Umbral IV but there was no mention if SMN will be getting 4 stacks of Aetherflow instead of just 3.
If we get stuck with 3 while also having a new skill that requires a stack, I can see some foreseeable issues with that.
Logically though, we should get 4 Stacks of Aetherflow. At 20 we got 2, at 40 we got 3, at 60 we should get 4.

[Sunako]

That is actually my only concern regarding SMN for HW. BLM will be getting Astral/Umbral IV but there was no mention if SMN will be getting 4 stacks of Aetherflow instead of just 3.
If we get stuck with 3 while also having a new skill that requires a stack, I can see some foreseeable issues with that.
Logically though, we should get 4 Stacks of Aetherflow. At 20 we got 2, at 40 we got 3, at 60 we should get 4.

Where you get that info blm is gonna get IV astral/umbral? I think they are gonna get fire 4 and blizz 4 but number of stack will stay same.

[Hakmatic]

Logically though, we should get 4 Stacks of Aetherflow. At 20 we got 2, at 40 we got 3, at 60 we should get 4.

Thats exactly what I thought about Greased 4. :/

[Sleigh]

No one is getting enhanced current modes. No Astral Heat IV, no GL4, no Aetherflow 4 stacks, etc.

BLM is getting a new stance, similar to how MNK is getting Chakra and SMN is getting Bahamut stacks.

[TraeSnow]

No one is getting enhanced current modes. No Astral Heat IV, no GL4, no Aetherflow 4 stacks, etc.

BLM is getting a new stance, similar to how MNK is getting Chakra and SMN is getting Bahamut stacks.

Yea, my bad I read it wrong. xD
Though still...am I the only one that feels like we are being limited more with getting more skills that require a stack from Aetherflow but still being stuck at 3 max?