Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[Charybdis]

Bug report time? In the mean time should we move forward assuming SS does nothing for pets?

[rosalynian]

i've been checking this forum every day for finalized stat weights and just now made a forum account, since i'm concerned with how wonky spell speed is that it won't get weighted properly. i suck at math, but i can at least contribute something -- here's a video back in 2.0+ era of spell speed's effect on garuda (not mine, however).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HneAv7NrIiw

not looking at damage here, just the speed of the attacks. the higher speed one obviously starts to deviate and go faster than the lower speed, and i don't believe they changed that in 3.0, but rather made ifrit's/titan's burning strike/whatever ALSO get affected by spell speed, since they were changed to magical. ifrit's autos, however, i think remain at the consistent 3s or whatever autos are at. it's like drg with skill speed -- their autos don't change with skill speed, but their gcds do.

as for actual damage NUMBERS i've seen nothing to indicate that spell speed affects those on pets, just the rate at which they use their auto-cast, but i have no analytical evidence or numbers to back this up. rather i leave that to the people who have the energy and will to test because i'm terrible.

also it should be kept in mind that garuda's and ifrit's auto-casts (wind blade and burning strike), while they have a potency of 100 and 120 respectively, scale differently from each other due to ifrit having his added auto-attacks. so 100 potency on garuda's "spells" actually does more than ifrit's potency on his "spells." this can be seen by just letting your pet attack the dummy and comparing the two, and was probably done to balance the two pets a bit more. SO, since garuda's auto-cast hits harder, spell speed for HER might have more effect than for ifrit. might.

the "enhanced pet actions" is activated with a 20% chance when the pet deals critical damage. it increases our spell speed by 20%, which is why it's ALSO a boost for pet's auto-cast speed during its duration. however seeing this in wind blade's/burning strike's tooltip is impossible since it does not reflect the change, which is dumb.

all that said i have no idea how you'd test if spell speed has any effect on actual damage numbers, because you'd need to keep int AND determination at the same rate and cut out crit between the two sets, but that's why there are people smarter than i. but as far as i can tell, spell speed affects the pets exactly like how it affects us -- we get faster spells, like on ruin, but it does jack for our damage on ruin and our auto-attacks. that seems to make the most sense.

but sometimes squeenix doesn't make sense so who knows. i just really want accurate stat weights. :c

[Dervy]

Yeah, bug report it and see what SquareEnix say.

In order to receive the effects of the caster's spell speed attribute, all pet actions excluding auto-attacks have been changed to elemental damage.

Can someone get base 354 SS, then the most SS they can stack and get both Ifrit and Garuda to cast their 3s ability, maybe 10 times. Record both in fraps, dxtory, nvidia shadowplay, whatever, then either upload the raw file to mega.co.nz, or upload it to youtube for me to download?

Alternatively, you can check it for me. Check the exact amount of frames when you manually cast a burning strike, until damage pops up on the dummy, crop them, then compare 354 SS and whatever SS you could possibly stack.

Because they have to be affecting something. The patch notes state that all pet actions have been converted to Elemental Damage, meaning they're now spells which

A) Should be affected by Foes Requiem
B) Should be affected by Spellspeed in some way.

If there's seriously no noticeable increase in damage in Pet actions, no change in the amount of actions cast, nor a change when you break it down frame by frame with an increase of SS, then this is a severe bug which needs to be reported.

Make sure all the work is posted in that "Report a Bug" thread as well so they can see it.

[ShinryuReishiki]

Alrighty, just finished 20 mins with Ifrit. 592 SS so 238 over 60 base. Allowing all of the spell speed buffs to play out. 400 attack would be par.

http://i.imgur.com/FOQZf6V.png

Nothing (and actually 6 attacks under 400 which I can't explain). Spell Speed doesn't do jack for pets.

The reason it's not 400, even at this higher amount of SS, is because Burning Strike is not actually used every 3s. At 354 SS, my Ifrit was doing one Burning Strike ever 3.26s. At 679 SS, I was getting one Burning Strike ever 3.10s.

Can someone get base 354 SS, then the most SS they can stack and get both Ifrit and Garuda to cast their 3s ability, maybe 10 times. Record both in fraps, dxtory, nvidia shadowplay, whatever, then either upload the raw file to mega.co.nz, or upload it to youtube for me to download?

Alternatively, you can check it for me. Check the exact amount of frames when you manually cast a burning strike, until damage pops up on the dummy, crop them, then compare 354 SS and whatever SS you could possibly stack.

That's how I've been getting my numbers. I'm going to make a video comparing the two side-by-side like I did with Garuda back in 2.45.

[Charybdis]

I can do this later on nvidia, Dervy but I've 0 experience in posting bug reports if someone wants to do that. If someone can record what Dervy is asking before me then feel free (mom in town, busy weekend).

[Sidra]

Edited my last post to include 354 data. So in a 20 minute parse, there is 0 difference in Ifrit's Burning Strikes and Autoattacks from 354 to 592 speed. In both parses there were 394 Burning Strikes.

[Dervy]

So, if 325 SS only decreased your cast times by 0.16s,

0.16/325 = 0.0004923077

0.11*0.0004923077 = 223.4375

So, can someone stack 903+ SS and tell me if they get 2.9 recast? (Lmfao)

At base Skill/spell speed, we don't have 2.5GCD, but rather, 2.50226 or something like that. The game hates decimals for some reason. If the same is said about pets, I'm going to get really frustrated, as this is going to be A LOT of work...

[Aikaal]

Not Summoner but it can be useful for you Dervy.

At 644 Spell Speed.

Fire 1 - base 2.5 --> 2.39 -- 0.11 secs
Fire 4 - base 3.0 --> 2.87 -- 0.13 secs
Flare - base 4.0 --> 3.82 -- 0.18 secs

You definitely gain more from Spell Speed with longer recasts.

If I recall 26.5 Speed = 0.01 GCD for a 2.5 seconds spell.

[Sunako]

Not Summoner but it can be useful for you Dervy.

At 644 Spell Speed.

Fire 1 - base 2.5 --> 2.39 -- 0.11 secs
Fire 4 - base 3.0 --> 2.87 -- 0.13 secs
Flare - base 4.0 --> 3.82 -- 0.18 secs

You definitely gain more from Spell Speed with longer recasts.

If I recall 26.5 Speed = 0.01 GCD for a 2.5 seconds spell.

I think % is same all of the time, but it is rounded bit up and down.

0.11 / 2.5sec = 4.4%
0.13 / 3 sec = 4.3%
0.18 / 4sec = 4.5%

[Sidra]

Just grabbed some dinner and had been thinking about this. Dervy - We have a 20 min parse where 238 Spell Speed did not grant Iftit even a single additional Burning Strike. That is longer than any encounter actually lasts. While it really isn't looking like Spell Speed impacts the pets at all, even if it starts to creep up at even higher spell speeds, the increase is going to be so small, and the pets are just a fraction of SMN damage. Any impact to numerical weighting is going to be negligible. I think that you can proceed with weights as if speed doesn't effect them.

That being said, do you have the data you need from an actual damage perspective on the pets (INT/DET on how hard they actually hit)?