Connecting the DoTs: A Summoner Guide

[Judge_Xero]

A couple interesting Data Points.

Over 1680s (28 Minutes) - Ifrit Testing

354 Spell Speed
607 Crit (11% Chance)
552 Auto Attacks
528 Burning Strikes

751 Spell Speed
479 Crit (7% Chance)
552 Auto Attacks
541 Burning Strikes

354 Spell Speed
483 Crit (7% Chance)
552 Auto Attacks
523 Burning Strike

I should have done a full base Crit/SS as something to compare these results to, but to give an example.

4% Crit Chance was almost a 1% increase in Pet damage through Enhanced Pet
397 SPD was close to 3.5% increase in Pet damage.

I'd be interested in a combination of really high Crit/SPD to see how it would compare.

I wish I could record a proc chance, to determine how much the SMN would benefit from additional SPD.

[Charybdis]

A couple interesting Data Points.

So the AAs seem set (which makes sense since they said SS wouldn't affect AAs) but with +397 SS there's a ROUGH increase of 13-18 Burning Strikes. The increase in Crit on your first set could account for more Enhanced Pet procs which increase the number of Strikes a bit. This is all rough speculation of course using this.

But +397 SS would be a rough increase of 3.44% of ability uses which would mean 114.406 SS per 1% increase in Stikes/ability.

My math could be wrong (I'm the data collector, not the math-er) and that's likely not enough data to make a data point but it's some napkin math for discussion.

EDIT: Were you letting Enhanced Pet Actions proc and pet attack through them? I'd assume so, just asking for clarification.
EDIT 2: You answered like everything I just said with your edits, damn you!

[Dervy]

A couple interesting Data Points.

Over 1680s (28 Minutes) - Ifrit Testing

I should have done a full base Crit/SS as something to compare these results to, but to give an example.

4% Crit Chance was almost a 1% increase in Pet damage through Enhanced Pet
397 SPD was close to 3.5% increase in Pet damage.

I'd be interested in a combination of really high Crit/SPD to see how it would compare.

I wish I could record a proc chance, to determine how much the SMN would benefit from additional SPD.

How did you get 5 more burning strikes with two different parses at 1680s, when both are at base SS?

I feel it should be about capturing data and analyzing it, not having a conclusion/assumption ready then working in reverse trying to prove it.

Isn't this the opposite of what you've been doing though? Everything you've said has no analysis or weight to it, other than eye-balled, subjective statements. That's what's getting on my nerves lol.

[Charybdis]

How did you get 5 more burning strikes with two different parses at 1680s, when both are at base SS?

I think it was/is the difference in CRT he has. The higher CRT with Enhanced Pet Actions procing, would create additional Spell Speed due to it mathematically happening more because of CRT increase.

[ecastle2]

I think it was/is the difference in CRT he has. The higher CRT with Enhanced Pet Actions procing, would create additional Spell Speed due to it mathematically happening more because of CRT increase.

This exactly. The higher crit rate got a higher SS buff proc rate therefore giving a higher effective SS over the course of the parse.

[Minorinz]

Isn't this the opposite of what you've been doing though? Everything you've said has no analysis or weight to it, other than eye-balled, subjective statements. That's what's getting on my nerves lol.

nope, not really. Still nothing on ss yet but we have something on crit.

[Dervy]

nope, not really. Still nothing on ss yet but we have something on crit.

Sigh. I give up.

It's days like this I wish I had 60 SMN ;_;

[T0rin]

Haha oh the irony. So let's just, for a second, assume that spell speed ends up being really good. The 20% spell speed increase from the pet trait is considerably more potent than what you would get from gear. But it's spawned with a crit. LOL good luck with that math.

It's actually really easy to simulate by normalizing how often procs occur. Still, those numbers show that the average SS over time you gain from the crit procs is still nothing compared to what you get from gear. Also, the value of those procs scales with gear, so really, you'll want both. But we'll never be able to incorporate the value of those procs into the crit weight itself, that will all have to come out of sims.

nope, not really. Still nothing on ss yet but we have something on crit.

Don't you realize that the same analysis determines the values of both? If you don't have anything on SS, you don't have anything on Crit. They're both relative to each other, so unless you know how _relatively good_ SS is, you have no idea how _relatively good_ Crit is. You can't understand the value of one without understanding the value of another.

Sigh. I give up.

It's days like this I wish I had 60 SMN ;_;

You don't need a level 60 SMN to recognized a horrible argument for what it is.

[Minorinz]

I can't quote everyone, but I will say that I don't mind the ss test but just to be clear, do not start spreading misinformation about ss being better than crit or even det without going through ingame scenarios (instances) because people will blindly trust you on it and start stacking and adjusting their gear. Most of the people who post on this thread are creditable smns. If you wanna do some researching on it then sure, i'm happy to see smns who care to help and reach out to others. However it wouldn't be a good thing when new smns coming to learn/lurk jump to the conclusion that ss is somewhat better. Other than what I just noted, I feel it should be about capturing data and analyzing it, not having a conclusion/assumption ready then working in reverse trying to prove it.

[Sidra]

Haha oh the irony. So let's just, for a second, assume that spell speed ends up being really good. The 20% spell speed increase from the pet trait is considerably more potent than what you would get from gear. But it's spawned with a crit. LOL good luck with that math.

Also of note, Ifrit's autoattack is unaffected, meaning whatever the benefit from spell speed ends up being, Garuda will benefit more from it as it applies to nearly of her damage.