dungeon helpers

[Tint]

if a summoner use a healing spell he is probably healing his pet. i have seen people heal themself, even if i don't was in cleric. but that were always new people. never seen that in lvl 50 dungeons, even if i was in cleric and don't care about healing and people dropping to 10% or less xD

[Cynfael]

What I find is that if you play SCH, DPS players (particularly SMN and BLM) will heal themselves more frequently than when I play WHM. That's all fine, but that just shows how inefficient healers DPS'ing really is, because it brings down the total DPS of the party if the party members are stopping DPS themselves to heal. If SMN and BLM's are doing this because they always think SCH's are incompetent, what does that really say?

This is nonsense. BLMs and SMNs attempting to heal themselves are generally incompetent (to put it more generously, perhaps they are very new and simply don't know better). The only time it is acceptable for the DPS caster to spend their GCDs on healing is when both of the following are true: 1) the healer is not healing (usually = they're dead) and 2) the DPS heals will at least keep the tank up long enough to give the group a chance of salvaging the situation.

If players are playing the dungeons like they are designed, healers would not be DPS'ing at all except when the party is taking no damage.

Many weeks and many threads of discussion later and you still don't understand how this works? I feel like this is the commercial with the elderly woman not understanding social media -- That's not how any of this works.

When in doubt, don't step out of your role unless you're taking ownership of the party failure for doing so. It's far easier for the healer to not DPS and just save their MP until someone needs a heal than it is for them to DPS and cause an overall net DPS loss because the DPS players think the healer is incompetent and are healing themselves. You will have people that will complain either way, so justify what you're doing instead of just letting the DPS walk over you.

This...doesn't...really...happen. And neither does running dry on MP due to providing support DPS. Whacking the dead horse again here, but it's indisputable that healer DPS increases efficiency when done properly (and yes, that means weaving DPS between necessary heals). Sitting on your GCDs with a maxed MP bar waiting for some disaster that won't happen is a terrible way to play.

[KisaiTenshi]

This is nonsense. BLMs and SMNs attempting to heal themselves are generally incompetent (to put it more generously, perhaps they are very new and simply don't know better). The only time it is acceptable for the DPS caster to spend their GCDs on healing is when both of the following are true: 1) the healer is not healing (usually = they're dead) and 2) the DPS heals will at least keep the tank up long enough to give the group a chance of salvaging the situation.

Do you not see the connection between #1 and Healers DPS'ing? As I said, I'm only ever seeing this when playing SCH, not WHM. I'm not going to stop every party and go "look, I'm playing a scholar, I can throw DPS DoT's while the fairy heals" The DPS can not see the fairy's cast meter, because the fairy doesn't show up in the party list. The only reason anyone knows the fairy is healing them is that cast line that shows up.

People who play DPS and never healing roles, would obviously fail to make that connection between why the healer doesn't heal at 10% or 30% damage, and why the target shouldn't heal themselves like in other MMORPG's where healers are useless.

Many weeks and many threads of discussion later and you still don't understand how this works? I feel like this is the commercial with the elderly woman not understanding social media -- That's not how any of this works.

Many weeks and many dead horse beatings later, you still think I'm going "healers should stand still with their staff up their butt and do nothing"...

Let me spell it out again...

If people were playing the game like it was designed HEALERS WOULD NOT BE DPS'ING WHEN THERE ARE HEALABLE TARGETS, which is the entire point of this:

You know, whenever I'm on my SCH in a lower level dungeon, I find that other players (generally DPS) think that because I'm DPSing, I must not also be healing. I'm not sure if it's because Eos doesn't show what she's doing (as in, all they see is me DPSing.) I finally asked in my last dungeon where a DPS was healing (an arcanist.) Her answer was because I wasn't...

That ACN in that example was likely jumping the gun because they were seeing healable targets, but not at the threshold of which need healing for Eos. Now go back to my other statement:

That said, if a WHM is DPS'ing and not healing, it's VERY obvious. Because the tank will fall over in 10 seconds. SCH's Eos/Selene will never let the tank die,

If you're in a dungeon, especially a pre-30 dungeon as a SCH, you only have a single heal skill, Psysick, which is the same potency as Eos's Embrace. You can pretty much let the fairy do all the healing until the boss room. But when you do that, the other players will only see you DPS'ing, not healing.

If they want to take over healing, offer to unsummon the fairy and see how long they last.

[Cynfael]

Snip.

Too lazy to quote everything this afternoon, so short version from me:

1. Whether it's SCH or WHM doesn't matter. Only difference is that the WHM actually has to stop casting heals to effectively DPS. Either way an effective healer is still throwing in DPS as they are able, and this requires not overhealing the slightest injuries. When I play DPS, healers only make me nervous if I remain at low HP for an extended period of time; if I'm missing a moderate chunk and know that nothing else is likely to hit me for at least a few seconds, I continue doing my job and fully expect that I'll be topped off before the next unavoidable damage spike.

2. You specifically said If players are playing the dungeons like they are designed, healers would not be DPS'ing at all except when the party is taking no damage. This is not how you do it properly. It is not an all-or-nothing proposition. You DPS correctly as a healer by gauging the healing requirement for the situation and weaving in your DPS accordingly. It may sound like semantics, but the distinction is actually important.

[lacrimosaangel]

I haven't gotten my healing job yet, but have been in several parties where the healer was DPS-ing and the party wiped because of it. As a BLM, I've had to self-heal on a number of occasions, usually due to the healer not healing at all.

Oh and let's not mention that time the healer decided to pull agro and tank an entire mob in Haukke and as a result kept yelling about her low MP while the rest of us kept trying to get her to heal. Tank died, other dps died, and I ended up taking out the boss by myself because the healer refused to Rez the others because and I quote "The boss only has 10% health, I'll take it." Needless to say she died too!

But then on the flip side, I've had parties where the healer has been absolutely amazing and nobody ever dropped below 90% so it's a bit hit and miss!

[AskaRay]

If people were playing the game like it was designed HEALERS WOULD NOT BE DPS'ING WHEN THERE ARE HEALABLE TARGETS,

I still don't really understand this... if people played the game the way it was designed, tanks would only pull one mob group at a time, thus only taking damage from maybe three-four enemies, DPS would only AOE a bit of the time, and healers would be....bored if just healing. I mean, besides a few enemies most trash pulls don't hit that hard.

Remember SE doesn't really like people to pull all the trash up to a boss and AOE them down.

[VanilleFang]

But then on the flip side, I've had parties where the healer has been absolutely amazing and nobody ever dropped below 90% so it's a bit hit and miss!

That actually says, to me, that they were a bad healer. If you never dropped below 90% (which is pretty impossible) then they must have been healing everyone to 100% all the time. That's a bad habit for healers to have.

And the other stories you told were bad players. DPSing had literally nothing to do with how terrible at healing they are.

[Saseal]

...............
I just got out of a Totorak with a so called ACN "helper".
*tries not to strangle them* Was messing me up hardcore. -_- Fortunately or unfortunately, I'm not a very confrontational person. "Don't worry, you can have faith in my healing". no change. sigh. They'd heal if even the tiniest hp was missing on anyone.

And then they summoned topaz. Twice. /facepalm
More annoying than emot spammers.

This is the first time I've had this, and immediately thought back to this thread...

[Kuwaitum]

I am main WHM for more than a year and half, also I'm a decent WAR.

As a Healer & a Tank, I am in favour and encourage Healers to DPS. I call it an Active Healer Mode, even with heavy healing a Healer can cast the least Aero or Virus, thus helping.

But I encountered Terrible & horrible healers:

1. Only Healing Type:

Me as Tank, I run Deepcroft (normal), Whitemage only casted protect on me & ownself (DPS were watching CS). Her character was always on standing idle pose (hands behind head). Only healed when my HP was lower than 25%, I am a main Healer, so when I tank I avoid/reduce as much damage as possible to ease my healers; yet this Whitemage was a jerk. When I asked for proper healing and to be at least active I got the famous "Do you see yourself dying?" sentence.

2. I'm DPSing Type:

Me as a Lancer in Halatali (normal). Scholar was on Cleric all the time. Tank was GLD (with main whm/sch Lv.50). Tank's HP was draining like crazy, and for a reason Eos's heals weren't enough. The BLM started to heal the tank while the SCH was DPSing (on cleric). This time the BLM asked the SCH to heal and she replied with the famous "Do you see him dying?" sentence. Mind that the Tank died due lack of heals 4 times before reaching the 2nd boss & rage quit.

Note: I respect healers who are over healing more than the waiting with /idle pose. I also respect the active healers who want to help DPS, but not to the extent that they forget to heal (especially scholars.. if you want to DPS que as a SMN not SCH).

[Alisi]

SNIP!

Healers don't do enough damage to pull aggro and, while there's general healing aggro, this still shouldn't've been enough to pull aggro from a competent tank. This is a serious tanking problem you, as a healer, see a lot. Nor do I think she'd be at low MP from DPSing too much. Spam healing does that so we have two scenarios here: either the healer went OOM because she was spam healing herself or because she was rockstar DPSing? It's not right. If she wasn't healing as you said, she would've died in a hit or two. If she was spam healing herself and the tank still couldn't arrest aggro from her? Tanking problem.

A lot of "bad" healers get judged because others in the party haven't healed and aren't aware of what is a healer problem and what is a tanking problem. But I dunno. Maybe your healer was just really, really bad.