I don't want to use parsers

[ruskie]

As much as I prefer to avoid such topics my take on parsers is as follows. I'm not outright against them but if they are used outside of a premade group with a proper set of rules(i.e. PF, static) to harras others instead of helping/stating the obvious(aka this isn't happening - but then you don't need a parser to see that really) then that would be qualified as harrasment.

I've been "pen and papered" countless times. I was never harrased about it though I did have a discussion with someone that did parse me as to why my damage was on average 15% lower than the melee and casters but it was all civil and after the fights. I had people give me numbers at times as well but for the most part I rely on the rather inaccurate though still not that bad way of enmity meters - there's a reason they are bars really - makes comparison easier. I also discuss stuff with others that I know are good with the job.
I mean if you have the following in the bar form:
5 [|------]
3 [---|---]
4 [-|-----]
2 [-----|-]
A [------|]

It's pretty obvious that #5 and #4 are outputting crap dps(outside of quelling strikes, elusive jump - but tbh a good dps will claw back up from either - atleast I do after a quelling strikes opener and tend to be either #3 or #2 often depending on mechanics and jobs) - the ratios matters as much in there to give you relative value towards the other dps.

If you on the other hand have something like:
3 [----|--]
5 [---|---]
4 [----|--]
2 [-----|-]
A [------|]

You know that all are outputting reliable DPS and no big worry there.

Of course this all works great for single target, multitarget it breaks down.

If an official parser would be added would I use it? Most of the time: NO. I don't need to know my dps so much and I prefer to enjoy the game itself and the encounters instead of looking at numbers so much - and I kinda doubt we would get an ingame parser that would allow much in terms of historical/fight analysis then it would just be a number.

And I agree information is a good thing. But to much of it is also bad - especially if it lacks context.

[Allyrion]

And I agree information is a good thing. But to much of it is also bad - especially if it lacks context.

There can never be too much information. There can be UI clutter or server strain and that's why it might information can be overwhelming and a bad thing.
But not because having the information available is bad.

It can't be too much information and lack context. If it lacks context, then it's not really that much information.
Your enmity bars are actually a great example of bad, context-less information.
I'm not saying it's the worst thing to use it as a ghetto parser, but yea it's affected by other factors and breaks down with any target switching.

That is information that lacks context and it does little to help people improve.
Real parsers can, at the very least, give damage break downs by abilities and times cast as well as stuff like % crit. You should also be able to see damage taken by players and enemies and by who/what.
It can have death recaps.
Those are things that can help.
In the best case scenario, an enmity meter ends up doing the thing everyone that don't want parsers complain about - single out people that are severely underperforming with no information given on why that is, or how they can fix it.

I actually think SE could implement something like that because that's still nothing compared to a real logging site with graphs and positions. It's still enough information to get enough context and improve.
If not into the general UI, I just hope they open up add ons soon.
Though really that isn't my favourite solution since this is the only type of addon I want.

I have seen good summoners that were able to hold their own not epically high on the enmity bar but certainly more than 50% there.

A SMN with high enmity means they are probably blowing everyone else away in damage.

[Dement]

I had people give me numbers at times as well but for the most part I rely on the rather inaccurate though still not that bad way of enmity meters -there's a reason they are bars really - makes comparison easier. I also discuss stuff with others that I know are good with the job.
I mean if you have the following in the bar form:
5 [|------]
3 [---|---]
4 [-|-----]
2 [-----|-]
A [------|]

It's pretty obvious that #5 and #4 are outputting crap dps(outside of quelling strikes, elusive jump - but tbh a good dps will claw back up from either - atleast I do after a quelling strikes opener and tend to be either #3 or #2 often depending on mechanics and jobs) - the ratios matters as much in there to give you relative value towards the other dps.

If you on the other hand have something like:
3 [----|--]
5 [---|---]
4 [----|--]
2 [-----|-]
A [------|]

You know that all are outputting reliable DPS and no big worry there.

Of course this all works great for single target, multitarget it breaks down.

The problem with using the enmity bars beyond the use of skills which douse or dampen enmity generation is the subjectivity of it. You aren't basing your DPS on any objective point but solely on the subjective standard of your tank.If your tank is really good it could look like all the DPS are doing terrible DPS when in reality they may not be. The opposite also holds true of if you have a tank that's just good enough to keep hate, it would look like all of your DPS are rockstars when the entirety of the party is pretty lackluster.

On the other hand with parsers, you have an objective standard - "this DPS check requires us to perform 2100 raid DPS and we are getting 2050 raid DPS... where can we squeak out an extra 50? Well the numbers show that the MNK was a little below the average, let's look at his rotation and positionals next fight and see if we can't help him boost it a bit." Now since everyone has access to the parser information or at least their own, a normal player (read: not asshole) would likely direct the MNK a little bit. The MNK wouldn't have to get ridiculously defensive about it because they are looking at their own parse data and the parse data for MNKs in that enocunter in general would undoubtedly be made widely available. There would be no argument about whether the MNKs DPS was average, below or above, the numbers are there and the averages are known. If players are going to approach it in a harassment style, well those players are likely already doing it with the MNK having no proof of if what they say is true or not which leads to defensiveness.

I agree completely that in most situations most people wouldn't use it either. I'm not going to have my in-game parser up and running to tell me how well I did on my 200th run of Dungeon X when I stopped caring about it on the 5th run - we will still clear it with no problem. It's really the top end fights that have specific DPS checks that must be met that parsers are worthwhile.