I don't want to use parsers

[Lyzern]

But, as a White Mage, it pains me to see parties go through phases so differently because of lack of DPS.

The example I'll give you is T9, which I'm currently trying to clear with my static and since we're still forming, we've been doing PF parties (I know, I know, I shouldn't expect much of random people) and on some parties, we don't even see the first divebombs, the phase switches faster than that, while on others, we get 4 meteors, even with both healers helping the dps between beaks. I know that this is the way the fight is designed, but that's not my concern. The problem is that these people are doing a shit job and they don't know or care about it, but they're still dragging the party down because there's no way to tell if they're doing good or bad, unlike healers and tanks, which are obvious to see.

So, my question is: Without parsers, since they're illegal and to be honest they're not that clarifying, how could we make this better? Do you think some kind of scoreboard like the PvP ones would work? As in, total damage after the fight ends?

What does everyone think? Because, I don't wanna use parsers, but I don't wanna carry people either.

[Rufalus]

They re-affirmed a Beginner's Hall kind of thing is still coming that will teach people how to play their jobs, dps rotations etc, but sounds like it's still a ways off and not high priority.

[Malevicton]

So, my question is: Without parsers, since they're illegal and to be honest they're not that clarifying, how could we make this better? Do you think some kind of scoreboard like the PvP ones would work? As in, total damage after the fight ends?

This might come off kinda condescending, but it sounds like you're more concerned with the social image surrounding parsers than with parsers themselves. All you want is to see how much dps people are doing. That's all that parsers really do. How you choose to apply that information is up to you.

You can use a parser to just see total encounter damage rather than dps. It can actually work pretty much exactly the way the pvp scoreboards work if that's what you're looking for.

Wanting to see someone's dps without a parser is like wanting to have a convenient place to keep your money without using a wallet. You can find some work-arounds, but you're gonna make things needlessly inconvenient for yourself.

[m3eansean]

OP's description is the exact reason this game needs in game parsing for everyone to see.

Most of these DPS don't even know how badly they are doing, which is quite sad and a huge detriment to every party they join. Most players tend to end up avoiding them and the poor DPS doesn't know why he isn't invited anymore, which is also a bit sad.

If there was something apparent to all, showing your DPS output, they would at least have awareness and the opportunities to have that discussion about improving their rotations would be much easier and much less defensive.

[Viviza]

All you want is to see how much dps people are doing. That's all that parsers really do. How you choose to apply that information is up to you.

Yep. Exactly this. Good players in a positive environment use parsers to evaluate how well they are doing. They will see if they are behind and ask for help with their rotations and gear. They will encourage and offer tips to others. It offers an answer to why a given DPS check was missed, so will aid in the progression of raid content. It also fosters productive discussion on job balance when you can quantify the differences (insert snarky comment about productive discussions on the internet here).

Even something like training dummies that report DPS wouldn't be ideal. A training dummy is nice for a sanity check but doesn't measure up to a real encounter where you have to move, target swap, deal with imperfect timing on buffs, etc.

[Jim_Berry]

I only hate them because:

We were doing a T10 farm. Went 6/7. The WAR asked if anyone was parsing, but no one was. The PLD put up the parser, then, even though we won the next two fights, complaints about the DPS started when the WAR was noted to be out-parsing two of the DPS. At that point, people started leaving.

[Bloody]

I only hate them because:

We were doing a T10 farm. Went 6/7. The WAR asked if anyone was parsing, but no one was. The PLD put up the parser, then, even though we won the next two fights, complaints about the DPS started when the WAR was noted to be out-parsing two of the DPS. At that point, people started leaving.

While I know War can put out some nice DPS, unless they were heavily outgearing the 2 DPS in question I wonder why they were behind him.... However, I will agree that if you are farming consistently with minimal screw-ups that people should just continue to farm. I'm all for constructive feedback to help improve DPS and maybe speed up the farming, but unless soemone is really being dead weight I don't understand the problem (Though some might consider getting out-performed by a war to be dead weight I guess).

[ShaolinMike]

The only issue I have with parsers is with SUCCESSFUL parties. It inevitably takes the question from whether or not content is being cleared efficiently to whether or not it's being cleared with the efficiency of a world's first, record-setting party. So what if it takes 60 seconds longer to clear the fight. Was anyone dying unnecessarily? No? Were the healers under too much stress because people kept eating attacks? No? Were the tanks losing aggro? No? Does the entire party understand all the mechanics? Yes? Then who cares?!

[Cynfael]

Unfortunately you can't really have conversations about improving DPS without recognizing that an issue exists (and who needs the improvement), so we do need parsing for that purpose. I truly believe that most players who underperform have no idea how much room for improvement they actually have.

Making the conversations constructive is on the players giving and receiving the criticism.

[Rufalus]

For some people I think it is habit carried over from older, slower games and they still use macro for everything, even ninja mudra. Actually there are a lot of people who deliberately underperform because they are semi afk watching netflix and they press buttons just enough to make themselves look like they are trying so they don't get kicked.