Themed Dungeons - Bringing Flavor back.

[Zantetsuken]

Final Fantasy Series has traditionally had themed dungeons that have required players to adapt to very specific conditions in order to complete them.

Some examples:

• The Sunken Shrine in FFI required the party to be able to breathe underwater via use of the Oxyale (空気の水).
• The Magnetic Cave in FFIV which rendered useless any metallic weapons/armor.
• Damaging floors which required/encouraged the use of float to pass (FFIV)
• The Fanatic's Tower in FFVI in which magic was your only way of attack.
• Oeilvert in FFIX which locked out all magic and must be completed with physical attacks and items.

While FFXI saw a taste of restrictive dungeons in 'Salvage', it didn't really go all the way as you could still bring whatever jobs/gear you wanted and just unlock it later.

I think it would be neat to see FFXIV with some thematic dungeons that restrict things like magic, physical attacks, TP generation, etc. In addition, elemental themed dungeons could deal constant damage to players unless they have a high enough affinity to that particular element.

Likewise, they should include bonus segments of future dungeons that are completely inaccessible unless a specific item/spell/class/gear type is used to enter it. It could even be set up where a DoL needs to harvest an item inside the dungeon and a DoH needs to craft that item into a key in order to unlock an optional corridor.

There could even be dungeons that are tailored specifically to DoW and DoH classes. The possibilities are practically limitless.

The main drawback is that this content would not be accessible to everyone, and we might see a fair amount of whining over new content that favors one class over others. But then, it might encourage players to level a new class as well...

[Onidemon]

Final Fantasy Series has traditionally had themed dungeons that have required players to adapt to very specific conditions in order to complete them.

Some examples:

• The Sunken Shrine in FFI required the party to be able to breathe underwater via use of the Oxyale (空気の水).
• The Magnetic Cave in FFIV which rendered useless any metallic weapons/armor.
• Damaging floors which required/encouraged the use of float to pass (FFIV)
• The Fanatic's Tower in FFVI in which magic was your only way of attack.
• Oeilvert in FFIX which locked out all magic and must be completed with physical attacks and items.

While FFXI saw a taste of restrictive dungeons in 'Salvage', it didn't really go all the way as you could still bring whatever jobs/gear you wanted and just unlock it later.

I think it would be neat to see FFXIV with some thematic dungeons that restrict things like magic, physical attacks, TP generation, etc. In addition, elemental themed dungeons could deal constant damage to players unless they have a high enough affinity to that particular element.

Likewise, they should include bonus segments of future dungeons that are completely inaccessible unless a specific item/spell/class/gear type is used to enter it. It could even be set up where a DoL needs to harvest an item inside the dungeon and a DoH needs to craft that item into a key in order to unlock an optional corridor.

There could even be dungeons that are tailored specifically to DoW and DoH classes. The possibilities are practically limitless.

The main drawback is that this content would not be accessible to everyone, and we might see a fair amount of whining over new content that favors one class over others. But then, it might encourage players to level a new class as well...

So if we get a dungeon that restricts magic, then how will melee classes play? Who will tank? ... same goes for dungeons that restrict magic... who will heal and buff?

For that to work then we would need a mage class that can tank and a melee class that can heal(maybe monk can heal with Chakra like they did in FFT)


It is possible but very hard to implement and balance in a MMORPG.

[User201109011315]

I think restrictive dungeons would be hard to pull off without making them really boring.

But puzzle solving and other such imaginative features would not be remiss, I give you that much.

[Rau]

That's how is right now! Why do you think everyone invites 4 Archers for Darkhold speed runs?

[DNO]

nope not a good idea.

In an MMO you need to be able to use every job in all content. even more so in this game as the content is far and few so each job has to get it fill.

Now making a Dungeon where inside some monsters need Magic attack to kill and others need melee attack is better. because that makes it so team play is needed and a balanced party is needeed.

content where everyone can use/play is good. content where half the classes can play is bad.

[Gramul]

He's not only talking about dungeons that restrict weapons or magic.
He's talking about dungeons that would use a certain gimmick or feature to complete. Something to change the pace of gameplay and have people think about how to go about completing it under those restrictions.

[Delsus]

This would be a bad idea, restrict magic you have no one to heal, and items arent worth the money right now, restrict melee, you loose most of the players because i would imagine more people play melee, restrict ranged you have to run into a load of mobs and possibly wipe from the mass of mobs.

Also what would DoH do in a dungeon? open chests to get mats to make a key to open the next door?

While it would add more stratagy it would not work in a mmo.

[Zantetsuken]

He's not only talking about dungeons that restrict weapons or magic.
He's talking about dungeons that would use a certain gimmick or feature to complete. Something to change the pace of gameplay and have people think about how to go about completing it under those restrictions.

Exactly.

Keep in mind that the dungeons and rewards would be balanced according to the restrictions. I'd hardly expect a magic-themed dungeon to give a suit of GLD armor as a reward.

Also, don't limit yourself into thinking that restrictions are just magic-only or phys-only. Consider the examples I gave (along with some others):

• Elemental Condition (eg Lava Dungeon) - Elemental affinity needs to be above X or you take damage every step.
• Magnetic Field - Metallic weapons are 50% slower/weaker and metallic armor gives you 'Gravity' effect.
• Curse of Hunger - Food wears off 4x faster, and you gain weakened condition if not 'Well Fed'
• Submerged - Need 'Bubble' spell (eg like "force field" in LL opening) to navigate through dungeon -- Sorta FF:CC style
• Poison Gas - Constant poisoning if not using special mask item
• Magic Supression - MP costs double
• Aura of Torpor - no TP generation
• False Walls - Need Miner to locate and break through.
• Crafters Door - Specific DoH class needed to make key to open door.

These ideas could either be used in optional parts of dungeons or as themes for an entire dungeon.

Sidenote: Now that I think of it, FFXI had the 'Three Mage Gate' which is along the same lines as the above ideas. Although, it was annoying as it was used as part of the Windurst Missions and wasn't optional. Restrictive gates like that should be used to protect content that is specifically relevant to the classes opening it IMO.

[northernsky]

So if we get a dungeon that restricts magic, then how will melee classes play? Who will tank? ... same goes for dungeons that restrict magic... who will heal and buff?

For that to work then we would need a mage class that can tank and a melee class that can heal(maybe monk can heal with Chakra like they did in FFT)


It is possible but very hard to implement and balance in a MMORPG.

The point would not be to recreate what we do in other dungeons but with constraints. Rather, it would be to find new ways to fight efficiently according to these constraints.

Instead of having a dedicated healer and tank, a melee only dungeon could force people to carefully balance hate between members so anyone can self-heal while aggro rotates between teammates. Personally I think it looks like lots of fun.

I agree that this should not be a predominant content in the game, but it could be part of the Jobs quests-lines for example, or idk, a team Maat-like fight for lancers only