Too little raid bosses

[Kalandros]

Please, do show me those 15-20 minute runs with ANY of the appropriate level gear for the dungeon. Likewise those lv60 dungeons in vanilla could be cleared super fast AND solo'd when you had gear. Those low level dungeons all soloable in a few minutes or very fast with a good group of the equivalent level. Also Maraudon was 1 dungeon. Everything connected.

You'll find it takes over 20 minutes easily if you do ffxiv dungeons without overgearing

But yea vanilla had stupid long dungeons because they had so much trash.

I dont think its fun to need to kill so much trash.
FFXIV has it balanced out in dungeons.

[LunnaRavenheart]

Please, do show me those 15-20 minute runs with ANY of the appropriate level gear for the dungeon. Likewise those lv60 dungeons in vanilla could be cleared super fast AND solo'd when you had gear. Those low level dungeons all soloable in a few minutes or very fast with a good group of the equivalent level. Also Maraudon was 1 dungeon. Everything connected.

You'll find it takes over 20 minutes easily if you do ffxiv dungeons without overgearing

But yea vanilla had stupid long dungeons because they had so much trash.

I dont think its fun to need to kill so much trash.
FFXIV has it balanced out in dungeons.

You are wrong, FFXIV dont have balanced dungeons in any way ... and also there is a problem that dungeons are already outdated/outgeared when they came out.

[Kalandros]

You are wrong, FFXIV dont have balanced dungeons in any way ... and also there is a problem that dungeons are already outdated/outgeared when they came out.

They balance the amount of Trash there is. Its not full of it that it takes you an hour just because there's too much trash like in WoW.
Also in WoW people find ways to skip trash so those dungeons take even less time and are also go from point A to point B - have you seen any recent WoW dungeon?

[Arixtotle]

Except the game itself has classifications of what is a trial (the primals) and what is a raid (CT, coil). Your interpretation of what is a raid or not is pretty much moot if we're going by ingame terminology.

Except that you can't use in game terminology and then compare to another game with different terminology. You have to use the same definitions and terminology for all games you are comparing. What I posted was the accepted MMO terminology which can be used to classify all MMOs.

[Kalandros]

Compare Vanilla with 2.0, don't add BC and stuff to it yet.

WoW had

Ragefire Chasm
Deadmines
Wailing Caverns
Shadowfang Keep
Blackfathom Deeps
The Stockades
Gnomeregan
Razorfen Kraul
Maraudon (1 Dungeon, all entrances connected, 3 'wings')
Scarlet Monastery (4 Wings)
Uldaman
Dire Maul (3 wings, 2 are connected)
Stratholme (2 wings)
Zul'Farrak
Blackrock Depths (best dungeon ever)
Temple of Atal'Hakkar
Scholomance
Lower Blackrock Spire
Upper Blackrock Spire
Zul'Gurub (10 bosses)
Onyxia (1 boss)
Molten Core (10 bosses)
Blackwing Lair (8 bosses)
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (6 bosses)
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (9 bosses)
Naxxramas (15 bosses)

FFXIV has
Main Story:

Sastasha
Tam-Tara Deepcroft
Copperbell Mines
The Bowl of Embers
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
Haukke Manor
Brayflox's Longstop
The Navel
The Stone Vigil
The Howling Eye
Cape Westwind
Castrum Meridianum
The Praetorium
Thornmarch (Hard)
The Whorldeater (Hard)
The Striking Tree (Hard)
Snowcloak
The Akh Afah Amphitheatre (Hard)
The Keeper of the Lake
The Chrysalis
The Steps of Faith

Optional:
Halatali
The Sunken Temple of Qarn
Cutter's Cry
Dzemael Darkhold (I think its not part of main story though there are many quests for it, Grand Company and such, I could be wrong and forgetting a Main Story Quest for it)
The Aurum Vale
Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep
Pharos Sirius
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
Haukke Manor (Hard)
The Lost City of Amdapor
Halatali (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Hullbreaker Isle
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
Sastasha (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
A Relic Reborn: the Chimera
A Relic Reborn: the Hydra
Battle on the Big Bridge
The Dragon's Neck
Urth's Fount
Battle in the Big Keep
The Bowl of Embers (Hard)
The Howling Eye (Hard)
The Navel (Hard)
The Minstrel's Ballad: Ultima's Bane
The Howling Eye (Extreme)
The Navel (Extreme)
The Bowl of Embers (Extreme)
Thornmarch (Extreme)
The Whorleater (Extreme)
The Striking Tree (Extreme)
Akh Afah Amphitheatre (Extreme)

Crystal Tower
- Labyrinth of the Ancients
- Syrcus Tower
- The World of Darkness
The Binding Coil of Bahamut
- Turns 1,2,4,5
The Second Coil of Bahamut
- Turns 6,7,8,9
- Savage Turns 6,7,8,9
The Final Coil of Bahamut
- Turns 10,11,12,13

I think people forget that once BWL was out, MC became just as easy as we now find first coil or certain extremes
Everything outgeared is always easy regardless of game

What I think Squenix did wrong was nerf content like T6-7-8 for no damn reason, not talking about echo either.

WoW had much less content. If you only count "raid bosses" then you're just stupid. Thats not what MMOs are all about. Raids are a TINY portion of the game and not the only end-game there is.

Also the Hard arent merely "oh lets just make them more hp with a mechanic extra" like Heroics are in WoW.
Compare Hard Mode dungeons to their normal version and, while its the same place, its not the same map, nor the same mobs or the same bosses. Its an entire different story and feel to the dungeons.

Primal Hard modes used to be very challenging to many people before everyone got decked out in i100+ gear. Hell we used to sell Titan HM because people couldn't clear it.
Extremes are even better fights, instead of merely changing the fight a bit it becomes an entire other thing you have to relearn.
Savage are the peak of difficulty, pretty sure they're harder than anything WoW has thrown in so far.

[LunnaRavenheart]

Nope I ended in LK because game started to be bad. Thats why I am talking about good things but not recent ones.

[Velthice]

Why would the devs waste their time creating content that less than 10% of the playerbase are going to see/beat?

[Nektulos-Tuor]

No Contested Zones.

Why not just make fun contested zones with wandering mobs, fighting others for drops/bosses and adding random raid bosses that wander them that you have to fight to?

Nobody seems to like Dynamic Dungeons these days, yet people love doing the same boring dungeons over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over...

[Kalandros]

No Contested Zones.

Why not just make fun contested zones with wandering mobs, fighting others for drops/bosses and adding random raid bosses that wander them that you have to fight to?

Nobody seems to like Dynamic Dungeons these days, yet people love doing the same boring dungeons over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over/over...

Especially bots. They can just repeat anything that isn't dynamic with ease.

[Warlyx]

trials count ....if lets say onyxia or sarthareon , malygos , magtheridon ect counted as raid in wow , trials should count as raids here too . 1 boss raid encounters arent heard off