Too little raid bosses

[Jamein]

The people who don't count Crystal tower tend to represent a quite small portion of the playerbase. I'd ask you this. What would you give up for more bosses? Trails? Its not going to be dungeons or story content cause far more people play that content than raid.

The dungeons would be fine to give up. The only reason people run the new dungeons is because that's what the new expert roulette is, I haven't run satasha or any of the other ex-expert dungeons since they went into high level (aside from when I was forced too for zodiac). They're not running it because it's awesome new content, they're doing it for the bonus, not to mention the gear that drops is absolutely trash. I don't care what dungeons are in the expert roulette, I just want the tomes and that's it. even now that I have all the tomes I want I find myself not bothering to even do expert roulette. So its hardly that the content is fun, yet I'll still go into FCOB on alts just for gear and fun.

Release one new dungeon, and one new high end raid (be it an addition to something like coil or an expert primal) that drops worthwhile gear and is more of a challenge every time there is a major update, rather than 3 new trash dungeons that are on speed run status within a day.

[Ashkendor]

(Primals aren't difficult, and shouldn't even be compared to the Raid scenario)

If difficulty is what determines whether content is a raid or not, why are LoTA/ST/WoD in there?

Primals have relevant gear when they're introduced. I don't see why they wouldn't count.

[Belhi]

The dungeons would be fine to give up. The only reason people run the new dungeons is because that's what the new expert roulette is, I haven't run satasha or any of the other ex-expert dungeons since they went into high level (aside from when I was forced too for zodiac). They're not running it because it's awesome new content, they're doing it for the bonus, not to mention the gear that drops is absolutely trash. I don't care what dungeons are in the expert roulette, I just want the tomes and that's it. even now that I have all the tomes I want I find myself not bothering to even do expert roulette. So its hardly that the content is fun, yet I'll still go into FCOB on alts just for gear and fun.

Release one new dungeon, and one new high end raid (be it an addition to something like coil or an expert primal) that drops worthwhile gear and is more of a challenge every time there is a major update, rather than 3 new trash dungeons that are on speed run status within a day.

Again that might be true to you but not for the bulk of the player base. Its only a relatively small number of players who have even completed Final Coil and that's with the echo.

Your basically saying produce less content for most of the player base to provide more content for a small fraction of it. From a developer perspective that makes no sense. Its very little return for resources invested.

Are we including expert primals by the way cause usually a patch will include at least one of them.

[Jamein]

snip.

No, I'm not saying we exclude them at ALL. I am saying we include both in the updates, a new dungeon for the playerbase, and a new end game for the end game playerbase. Throw in new primals/ 24 mans in the mix every odd patch and I find that quite satisfactory.

My issue right now is all they are doing is straight up replacing what dungeons we grind for expert roulette, 3 new ones, throw the old ones down a tier and there you go. I wouldn't mind if those dungeons were worth something in themselves, but as I said the gear is trash and people run them just for the tomes, so ultimately I don't think they care what they run as long as they get the tomes out of it.

[Kuroyasha]

If difficulty is what determines whether content is a raid or not, why are LoTA/ST/WoD in there?

Primals have relevant gear when they're introduced. I don't see why they wouldn't count.

1. Ask the dev team.
2. B/c the game, and thus the dev team, doesn't count them.

[Belhi]

Don't underestimate the value of variety. Regardless its still basically less content for the bulk of the player base so the very top end can have more. I'm not trying to be harsh about this. Its just a fact. 2 less dungeons means 2 less new things for most players. 2 less dungeons for 70% of the player base so 10% can get a couple of extra encounters. People do run dungeons, including expert dungeons for fun.

Its frequently a mistake that many players make is the assumption that what they find fun and consider entertaining content is true for the bulk of players. Tastes are hugely varied. There are some people who literally only play the crafting aspect of the game. I had an FC member annoyed that they would have to do the story now to get into crafting in Heavensward because they didn't enjoy any of the combat aspect of the game. Housing, gathering and crafting was their thing.

Assuming everyone sees Expert and High dungeons in the same light you do would be a big mistake. If people truly valued high end raiding as the crux of entertainment in FF14, there would be a lot more people having done Final Coil instead of the fraction that actually has. This is true for all MMOs. WoW's mythic raiding community is very small compared to the total player base. Infact one of the biggest criticisms that WoW has earned in recent times from its playerbase is the lack of dungeon content.

People want variety, even when grinding stuff.

Just to be clear, I do raid. I raided Mythic in WoW and the reason I haven't finished Final coil myself is my static members seemed to lose interest as we got closer to Heavensward so we ground to a halt at t11. This isn't that I would get less content. But I do value non raid content and also recognise that a lot more people enjoy non raid content than enjoy raid content. That's just the statistics.

[LunnaRavenheart]

Agree with OP.
For example in burning crusade WoW(2 year period) received 5 full scaled raids with about 10 bosses in each and 2 small scaled raids.
I also dont count towers as raids because If I compare SSC, The Eye, BT, MH, SWP it was endgame, much more harder endgame than towers here.
So only comparable are Coils. In 2 year period here in FFXIV there are 12 bosses vs 50 in wow.

[Jamein]

snip

I'm sorry, maybe I am not explaining myself as well as I thought.

I wasn't saying cut two dungeons and add in ONLY end game raiding + 1 more dungeon, I was also factoring in new primals/24 mans. in with this. I just don't see the point in creating THAT much new grind content, when you could use the resources for other things.

For example, 3 new dungeons, 3 bosses each, each boss has 2/3 mechanics? Cut out two dungeons and you've saved yourself the design time on 6 bosses and say 12 mechanics at least. Now those 6 bosses and 12 mechanics could be merged into one new end game raid boss, or primal or even make up half of a new CT. I'm look at this purely from a time management POV and what the dev team focus' on and I know this doesn't work quite as easily as this, but my point is if they cut down on the grindy content, and introduced more relevant content like more 24 man raids or primals, which offer gear on par with the current stuff, then I would imagine more people would feel like they were getting a lot more out of it. Ex-primals aren't something only 10% of the community do and even so I'm still asking for more 24 man raids, even if that means you get one patch with just one new dungeon, and the next patch with a dungeon + 24 man raid, or a patch with a dungeon + primal + ex primal (seeing as they say they design the primals in extreme first then cut them down for hard modes so it can't be hard to implement both.

I'm not so jaded that I think I'm the only one around, I just do not see the point in adding more grind content, when you could give the playerbase more variety in other ways.

Like I said, I'm just asking for a shift in developer focus and say spend less time making 3 new grind dungeons, you asked for variety and I'm sorry but look at the high level roulette, that thing is crammed full with variety.

[Kallera]

Unless i see a turnaround in how raids are set up with Alexander I'm not interested in this.

[The-Real-Link]

I also argue that it feels that there's a lot more in WoW simply because of the history of how long the game has been out.

But to be fair, we can look at Siege of Orgrimmar, which was the last major end game raid for MoP before Warlords came out. 14 bosses, but at the same time, that raid lasted about a year and two months with absolutely nothing for content - not even minor things, right until WoD launched. The reason why it may have felt like more in the sense of WoW is, as was said, your normal / heroic / mythic modes of varying difficulty. Something that SE did try with Savage and will be trying again with Heavensward.