Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[Darra]

That kind of mentality is what FEEDS rmt...and people are constantly whining about that blaming SE when the real fault of rmt lies with the players.

This isn't entirely correct: SE designed the content in a way that locks people out (Must do T5 before access to T6+, must do T9 for access to T10+), SE also designed the loot system that results in players that do buy kills, having to potentially pay for multiple to get what they want. SE also designed instant raid wipe mechanics that some people are better than others at dealing with. Whilst some people will pay for gil regardless of what game designs are changed, a lot of the gil buying for kills/loot, is the result of game design. What's easier to fix? Human behavior (especially behavior that some people do not see as wrong/bad) or game design that leads to people feeling the need to use in game currency to pay for things?

[Spy]

This isn't entirely correct: SE designed the content in a way that locks people out (Must do T5 before access to T6+, must do T9 for access to T10+), SE also designed the loot system that results in players that do buy kills, having to potentially pay for multiple to get what they want. SE also designed instant raid wipe mechanics that some people are better than others at dealing with. Whilst some people will pay for gil regardless of what game designs are changed, a lot of the gil buying for kills/loot, is the result of game design. What's easier to fix? Human behavior (especially behavior that some people do not see as wrong/bad) or game design that leads to people feeling the need to use in game currency to pay for things?

I can see what you're saying. But I find nothing wrong with having to beat T9 to get to T10. Especially considering there's story to the coils. It's like the main scenario...I wouldn't like to be able to do it in any order. I like the designated order.

This however I'm not sure I understand, could you explain this or reword it? I don't quite know what you're trying to say here.

SE also designed the loot system that results in players that do buy kills, having to potentially pay for multiple to get what they want.

Are you saying it's because people need to run things multiple times to get what they want? If that is the case, I don't see what's wrong with that either. This is an mmo, and they need to make things last as long as they can. If they give you all the content in one go, then people would have been long done with this game already. People are already complaining about having done everything in the game. And they can only release so much. That aside, you still shouldn't need to pay to get content. I have never, nor will I ever pay or charge to do content multiple times. If my friends say they're aiming for a particular gear piece, if I can, I help them run it multiple times to get it. As they have done for me.

What would be nice is if people stop being in a dang rush for things. Enjoy the game...the battling and learning is part of the experience. I just don't share the mentality of I have to have everything NOW so it's just hard for me to understand. But if people have to have everything NOW then, how does that not ruin the experience later...ok so you have your stuff...now what? I, personally, love working hard to get a piece of gear, and that way, when I do have it, I say "Wow this piece took me three weeks to get! I'll cherish it! Time for screenshots! "

It's true you can't fix human behavior. But SE can only do so much. And "boosting" isn't helping the inspiration for lazy (or people with not enough time) players to buy gil. That's the main reason I can't stand it. and it's partly selfish if people aren't willing to learn mechanics because then they just expect everyone to carry them. IDK, I can't speak for people. I can only speak for myself. I just can't stand it. And the constant bickering and raising pitchforks at Square Enix, where there are multiple things causing RMT (Mostly people actually buying gil :O ) bugs the crap out of me.

[Darra]

This however I'm not sure I understand, could you explain this or reword it? I don't quite know what you're trying to say here.

What I am referring to is the RNG with drops. Don't get me wrong, I do not think it's a good idea for a person to go into a dungeon once and get everything, it's more a case of swapping drops for tokens or some other method of reducing the horrific RNG. If you want the PLD sword in T9 for example, you might do it 30 times before it drops, that's 30 lots of paying someone might do, and that means $$$ for RMT. If you dropped a token that 1 player can loot, and trade in for a specific item of their choice, that would result in just 1 paid run. Alternatively, the RNG factor can be limited to the classes in the group, so instead of getting NIN and MNK drops when there's not one in the group, it would reduce the chances of undesirable drops, and again, reducing the potential kills needed (though with this game design style, you could in theory still need 30 kills for a specific drop).

[Spy]

What I am referring to is the RNG with drops. Don't get me wrong, I do not think it's a good idea for a person to go into a dungeon once and get everything, it's more a case of swapping drops for tokens or some other method of reducing the horrific RNG. If you want the PLD sword in T9 for example, you might do it 30 times before it drops, that's 30 lots of paying someone might do, and that means $$$ for RMT. If you dropped a token that 1 player can loot, and trade in for a specific item of their choice, that would result in just 1 paid run. Alternatively, the RNG factor can be limited to the classes in the group, so instead of getting NIN and MNK drops when there's not one in the group, it would reduce the chances of undesirable drops, and again, reducing the potential kills needed (though with this game design style, you could in theory still need 30 kills for a specific drop).

I can agree with that. I actually like the token idea

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And to those saying "it's no worse than being carried by friends" :

Though I can see why you'd say that, when it comes to my friends and FC and the people I've encountered through livestreaming and such, we almost always discuss strategies/mechanics/ways to improve/etc...and worked to help those who aren't strong at a particular part of the fight exceed. I know not everyone is like this, but justifying "boosting" with that is just silly. Because that's not the only thing wrong with "boosting"

Yes, that is perfectly fine. Let's say you apply for a job as a Cisco router and switch technician. When you show up to the job, you have absolutely no idea how to use Cisco IOS, nor how to configure a switch or router. Do you think you're going to get or keep that job? Absolutely not. It is not their job to teach you, it is YOUR job to take time and teach yourself.

I'm not talking about mechanics here, which vary from fight to fight. I'm talking about being able to do your basic job.

Uhh.....as someone who is completely against the run selling, your analogy is off....if I go to a job, actually it is the job of my superiors to teach me wtf I'm doing...you can't just walk into a job knowing how to do everything. Unless it's a field you're already greatly familiar with. And even then you need to learn what that job requires, their policies, their methods of practice. And that'd not really something you can teach yourself. The basics, sure....but....yeah...I'm going off topic. Because that doesn't have anything to do with run selling really...just an odd analogy. I may have just misinterpreted it, and I apologize if I had...but *shrug*