The constant disbanding of Steps of Faith

[SDaemon]

@Riceisnice

Just wanted to point out that HM stands for hard mode in this game not heroic.
Heroic dungeons is more WoW terminology.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just noticed you've been using the "heroic dungeons" label a lot in recent posts.

Doesn't really matter when the meaning is the same for similar/identical content. TOR calls their dungeons "flashpoints" but is the same as what we call dungeons (which WoW also uses...). They all use the term "heroic" there as well.

This isn't exclusive to TOR, XIV or WoW, MMOs in general have repeating and often times interchangeable terminology....

[RiceisNice]

@Riceisnice

Just wanted to point out that HM stands for hard mode in this game not heroic.
Heroic dungeons is more WoW terminology.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just noticed you've been using the "heroic dungeons" label a lot in recent posts.

I know, it's just a little tic of mine. I like saying heroic. It's more heroic than "hard". I also like to put out ability/dungeon names like Swinge. or The Tam-Tara Deepcroft. with the period and proper capitalization

[Iromi]

Doesn't really matter when the meaning is the same for similar/identical content. TOR calls their dungeons "flashpoints" but is the same as what we call dungeons (which WoW also uses...). They all use the term "heroic" there as well.

This isn't exclusive to TOR, XIV or WoW, MMOs in general have repeating and often times interchangeable terminology....

It does matter because not everyone played those games. If you want to be taken seriously and understood I would use the proper terminology. Not trying to be a jerk either...but like, for example lol..someone in my FC last night was like "Aww what a cute taru!" and his response was "what is a taru..?"

Heroic to me means an act of courage. I never played WoW so I have no clue.

[Cherie]

This was probably already mentioned, but at the beginning of the 2.0 release, so many people couldn't beat titan HM to get their first relic. It was a BIG problem for most people.

As I recall anyway, SE never nerfed that fight. They might have tweaked the latency and perhaps added more color options for the AOE pictographs, but other than gear upgrades and adding incentive for other players to go back and do it again to help, not much was done to it.


People still beat that eventually too right?
What happened to our community? I know that Steps of Faith has gotten tons of people to disband groups.
This is really all of our fault as a community though. We are so impatient, we just want to repeatedly farm stuff and we have a 5minute attention span.

Wouldn't it be more fun if we were clearing stuff less but it meant more to do a clear?

It's cause of us that for farming light on zodiak weapons we have to clear hundreds of dungeons for light to get credit.
The reason is clearing the dungeons means so very little anymore and I think SE knows that. Used to be, you get a weapon upgrade for just clearing a few hard bosses in the first relic questline. Now you must kill a easy boss, 100 times..

[SDaemon]

It does matter because not everyone played those games. If you want to be taken seriously and understood I would use the proper terminology. Not trying to be a jerk either...but like, for example lol..someone in my FC last night was like "Aww what a cute taru!" and his response was "what is a taru..?"

Heroic to me means an act of courage. I never played WoW so I have no clue.

players use the XI terms for the races all the time in XIV, while I don't really prefer them but egh that is another matter. I and many players in XIV have no issue with it and understand what they mean. likewise the term heroic has even been used in the PF several times from what I've seen. Now if someone were to write "flashpoints" in the PF yes that would be a complete disconnect. but if someone wrote heroic difficulty it really wouldn't.

[RiceisNice]

...

It's a matter of perspective at the time. Titan HM was required for the relic weapon (which I assume was BiS at the time). SoF is a main scenario thing that's gating an entire $40 expansion.

[Iromi]

players use the XI terms for the races all the time in XIV, while I don't really prefer them but egh that is another matter. I and many players in XIV have no issue with it and understand what they mean. likewise the term heroic has even been used in the PF several times from what I've seen. Now if someone were to write "flashpoints" in the PF yes that would be a complete disconnect. but if someone wrote heroic difficulty it really wouldn't.

Haha I have never heard of flashpoints either, but hey...learn something new everyday I have no problem learning new terminology...I just try to stick with what the particular game uses to not confuse folks ^^

[Rath]

This was probably already mentioned, but at the beginning of the 2.0 release, so many people couldn't beat titan HM to get their first relic. ..

Titan was not required to access an expansion, was not needed to continue the main storyline, and you can carry people through it. You also can wipe and restart and not have to wait for the boss to finish demolishing the walls.

1.) The quest itself did not need nerfing due to difficulty, but it being part of the main storyline and completion as a requirement to accessing expansion content forced it to be nerfed. If they did not make it so everyone could complete before the expansion was released, they would potentially lose sales.

2.) The storyline in this game was far too easy and did not require any cooperation to complete once people became overgeared for them. Most players doing storyline quests that involve a full party are told to skip the CS and follow. They do not learn the mechanics, as most are ignored nowadays, and often get locked out of the fights or kicked when they mention they are the new guy.

3.) This quest forces cooperation and communication in a gaming population not used to needing it unless they did ex primals or coil in pf or with peole they know. The majority of players only complete binding coil and ex primals with an echo buff or mechanics nerf in df and are not prepared for a mechanics driven battle in the main story.

4.) They should have gradually introduced more mechanics into storyline quests with il syncing to levels that kept the battles mechanics relevant. What they did, was throw mechanics and a huge time sink at players that were unprepared for it. Then they expected the players that understand this type of content to stick around to help when a screw up early on means sitting there for the entire duration of the battle before being able to make another attempt. Instead, they leave and then everyone else does as well.

This particular nerf was needed, but not because of difficulty, because of SE's flawed design.

[sarehptar]

They might have tweaked the latency...

Tweaking the latency in Titan is a massive nerf, lol. Pretty much anyone who can't beat (any version of) Titan can't beat Titan because of latency. That fight is in no way, shape, or form difficult otherwise. It doesn't require any substantial form of cooperation nor any real team mechanics like Steps of Faith. I think that a lot of people who complain "what happened to our community" forget that the trials are constantly evolving themselves, and that both recent story trials--Chrysalis and Steps--were more complicated than any other existing main story trials prior. Main story trials didn't need to nerfed before because they didn't present even a fraction of the challenge. If anything, the fact that Square is now erring on the side of creating more complicated story content and only nerfing it later should be taken as a good thing... They could just create content that has ZERO CHALLENGE right from the start, how about that?

(Also, I don't think the comparison of Titan HM and Steps of Faith is really fair--a relic weapon is optional; Steps is a requirement just to go any further in the painfully easy main scenario. If people couldn't get the relic weapon, oh well, they had alternatives. There is no alternative for Steps. Everyone needs to be able to pass it just to keep going in the most basic portion of the game.)

[Eidolon]

Titan HM was more than just latency. There was a minimum HP Requirement for everyone. 3,200 HP for everyone - I remember PF's explicitily requiring that, and PF's didn't come until later on.

It wasn't because of the Landslides people wanted minimum HP. It was because of the mechanics like stomps and people making sure they could survive. We were also unfamiliar with SE's system back then - we as players have gotten MUCH better.