Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[Skeith-Adeline]

When I hear elitism, I think of a person who doesn't want to play with people who aren't at their level of skill.

There is nothing wrong with that. Them not wanting to teach others is NOT an issue. I shouldn't have to teach persons who go into the Duty Finder. They should have the self respect and respect to others by watching videos. When said persons insult lower skilled players, then there is an issue.

I call myself elitist, but I don't insult others lack of ability - I just avoid them.

[Purrfectstorm]

Oh, I've never rejected a vote abandon to hold anyone hostage.

True, not all vote abandon rejects are about holding people hostage. I do feel like many are, though.

I think you're mistaking the elitism we all know and abhor for simply being good.

I'm not mistaking it. Different groups use the term "elitist" differently. I was just trying to demonstrate the positive side of elitism (the self-improvement angle). I agree elitism where people put others down is bad though.

However not watching a guide is not the sign of a bad/weak player.

I agree. Although in most cases the player who isn't watching a guide and wants to learn on the fly does so in groups where others do know the fight. Some groups are okay with this but many are not. Again, it is because players who don't know what they are doing are complete liabilities. SE shares the blame on this by making fights counter-intuitive and where new players cause auto-losses for groups. In this game, knowledge of fight mechanics IS what separates good and bad players. If you don't watch a guide and you're in a group of others who have, your performance will generally be worse.

I think this post is painting the issue in broad strokes.

I won't deny that. But look how long my post was just using broad strokes. Would any of you read a book on elitism if I wrote it? (I would paint a more complete picture, I promise!)

[Kiroh]

The issue isn't that only the elite post their parties, it's that those mid-tier and low-tier players who do post their groups have often had high-tier players join only to criticize and judge. They're not interested in helping a player to get better, only to rub their face in the dirt that they are 'superior' in some way. That is the real reason elitism get's such a bad rep.

If you're just good at what you do, that's fine. It's when you grind people beneath your heel in your wake that people get annoyed and call you out. I'm not expecting every good player to go out of their way to help newcomers, but this anti-social extreme is not acceptable and someone was going to mention it sooner or later.

Asking someone to not be a liability is not criticism, nor grinding people beneath your heel. And let's not kid ourselves, no one has fun wiping constantly no matter how much they insist. The first time it was fun, the 5th time it was amusing, the 50th time you still can't manage not to wipe to the same mechanic that has killed you 49 times before, it's not fun anymore and you're deluding yourself if you continue to claim it is.

And why are you upset with parties you don't want to be in forming with rules you don't like? They have no obligation to lower their standards for you, and you have no inherent "right" to a spot in a group. The people who have run something 100+ times have every right to want to run with other people with the same experience as they have.

And lastly, helping someone and carrying them are not the same things. No one expects you to be perfect, but if you can't even manage to survive at least 80% of the fight then it's not help anymore.

Did you even read what you quoted, or just the first line? Because if you read the whole thing, you'd understand your post is completely meaningless.

Then you go on to preach about belittling people, priceless.

Then let me put this in a way you can comprehend.

You have an obligation as a human being to not be a liability to everyone around you. When you absolutely refuse to take instructions because they're not phrased in a way you like, you are not living up to that obligation. If someone is being outright abusive, why would you even want to be in their group to begin with?

Again, everyone has a right to group with equally experienced players and they have no obligation whatsoever to stroke your ego when you screw up.

[Minorinz]

I think elitism is more about how people perceive you than what you perceive yourself as in this community. It all goes down to how people interrupt your actions or words. I just find it a little weird that when you do help new inexperienced people in fights and they thank you for it, you should be considered an elitist because you are superior in terms of experience, but most people will tell you that's not true because I think most people link elitism to an egoistic attitude?

[Kosmos992k]

I think this post is painting the issue in broad strokes.

And using water colors where oils would work better.

@OP - redefining elitism to fit your framework, does not in fact redefine it. I've seen all of this before and what you a re talking about is not elitism, it's veteran player fatigue which brings with it a nasty dose of intolerance for other players, new players and anyone/anything that does not meet the exact specifications of the fatigued veteran player at that time.

The attitude that demands others watch a video before playing is selfish pure and simple. Many players wish to experience content the first time by actually playing it.Shocking I know, imagine that wanting to play this game instead if simply viewing it on You Tube....

Elitism stems from the elitist who believes themself rightly or wrongly, to be superior to others, not player fatigue.

Dressing up the bitter intolerance that comes from the fatigue as elitism doesn't make it elitism, even if rationalizing it that way makes you feel better about your self.

[Lemuria]

Asking someone to not be a liability is not criticism, nor grinding people beneath your heal. And let's not kid ourselves, no one has fun wiping constantly no matter how much they insist. The first time it was fun, the 5th time it was amusing, the 50th time you still can't manage not to wipe to the same mechanic that has killed you 49 times before, it's not fun anymore and you're deluding yourself if you continue to claim it is.

Did you even read what you quoted, or just the first line? Because if you read the whole thing, you'd understand your post is completely meaningless.

I have absolutely no qualms with people playing alongside whomever they want. They can form their own rules, their own guidelines. However, often times I've seen these same experienced players outright belittling players because 'they're not good enough'. Some to the point where it becomes borderline harassment. This attitude doesn't help anyone and simply puts new players off attempting the content in case they're considered 'not good enough' by the next elite player that comes along.

The problem here is that it's THESE players which are giving the term 'elite' a bad reputation. They're the sole reason people consider elitism 'a bad thing' and 'toxic' for the community. Your post is almost an example of these issues itself, which really isn't helping matters. Being good is fine, being boastful and unpleasant to those you deem less skilled is not.

There's a difference between constructive criticism and telling someone they suck.

[kyuven]

I won't deny that. But look how long my post was just using broad strokes. Would any of you read a book on elitism if I wrote it? (I would paint a more complete picture, I promise!)

As an editor, I'd advise against using the term "elitist" as it doesn't contain the right connotations.
Also, you'd need to address arguments: mainly, how do you respond to day 1 content? If you expect people to watch videos, how about people who don't even know they exist? How about people who don't learn except by doing?
Also, you mention that you practice. OK. So I'd assume you use the PF? Or the DF? By your own expectations, since you're practicing, if you ran into yourself, would you leave yourself behind because you don't know the fight? At what point would you leave yourself behind?
Do you expect people who want to practice content to form a PF each time? There's about 2 dozen fights in this game with mechanics. How do you practice for each one?
You mentioned titan...titan is one of the worst fights for newbies not only because of how it punishes failure to respond to mechanics, but also because if you DO fail and end up at the bottom of that chasm, you can't see the rest of the fight. Even Leviathan lets you see the fight if you've fallen off...

[Ashkendor]

However not watching a guide is not the sign of a bad/weak player. To some players the challenge of learning a new fight is more fun then beating it. And often times those players have learned to quickly adapt to new situations and formulate tactics on the fly. This is is skill that is not easily gained and is even harder to obtain if all you ever do is watch/read guides.

I enjoy jumping into a new fight too. The thing is, jumping into a farm run or a clear run with no knowledge of the mechanics is completely disregarding the other seven people in the party. It happens all too often. Seven people are going in there to clear it. One person is going in there to learn it. The ultimate point of learning is a clear, of course, but if you're out for the experience of going in blind, jumping into a party with seven experienced people isn't the way to go anyway. If someone enjoys jumping in without a guide, more power to them - but they'll need to be joining or making learning parties and not disrupting the gameplay of people that are out for quick, painless clears.

I agree that it doesn't make you bad or weak, but it does make you awfully rude in some situations.

[nuyu11]

Last weekend I try to clear my t9 and ask some of my friends to follow me, everyone give a silence answer because I said I never go there before and this is my first time. I try ask some friends from my ls and one this nice player willing follow me to t9.

We q DF in there I'm just following what she's doing and stand but we still wipe because I screw up and they kick me.
She said it's OK we try again until u know the meteor and Golem mechanic, after 5 DF I ask her to stop and rest because I feel bad to her.

In the next day I DF alone trying to learn step by step, even after I watch more than 5 time MTQ and Mr.Happy video it still did not help me much because the strategy in Jap server is different from the video. But I'm lucky because in Japan after 15 min if our progress look pointless they will vote for abandon, so no drama at all I only do t9 on that saturday.

I'm able to clear t9 at sunday morning after 2nd DF swiftly without a single wipe feel proud about it.
Tonight I'm planning to do t11, I've just clear t10 last monday with 1 try only hahahahaha, compared with t9 t10 was nothing.

I'm totally thankful to her for giving some hope to try.

I'm planning to beat all coil before new expansion and aiming to be the one of the first player clear new expansion raid. I've been playing this game about 3 month already casually.

[Purrfectstorm]

As an editor, I'd advise against using the term "elitist" as it doesn't contain the right connotations.
Also, you'd need to address arguments: mainly, how do you respond to day 1 content? If you expect people to watch videos, how about people who don't even know they exist? How about people who don't learn except by doing?
Also, you mention that you practice. OK. So I'd assume you use the PF? Or the DF? By your own expectations, since you're practicing, if you ran into yourself, would you leave yourself behind because you don't know the fight? At what point would you leave yourself behind?
Do you expect people who want to practice content to form a PF each time? There's about 2 dozen fights in this game with mechanics. How do you practice for each one?
You mentioned titan...titan is one of the worst fights for newbies not only because of how it punishes failure to respond to mechanics, but also because if you DO fail and end up at the bottom of that chasm, you can't see the rest of the fight. Even Leviathan lets you see the fight if you've fallen off...

Elitism does carry negative connotations which is why something like "I've decided to become an elitist" makes such a great hook.

How do I respond to Day 1 content? I usually run it with FC or create a PF "Learning group, expect wipes, please be patient."

I only expect people to watch videos for difficult content (primarily EX primals and Coil). I would not expect them to watch a video in DF (although I'd certainly hope they would); I don't expect much out of DF at all. I can honestly say I've never met anyone who didn't know the community was using Youtube video guides to learn fights. In my FC, we get new players who ask about a fight. "Is Garuda EX much different than Garuda HM?" for example. They are usually advised that it is a lot different and that watching a guide might be helpful. That being said, I wouldn't be rude to someone who didn't know video guides existed or didn't realize right away what a really, really good idea it is to watch them first. As for learning by doing, I myself am that type of player, but I still find it somewhat helpful to know basic things like "Don't kill spiny" and "Don't place meteors too close together"

As for how I practice - generally I make learning groups in PF and/or ask FC members if they'd like to join. Friends are generally more patient of others learning content. It's unrealistic to expect this kind of patience from complete strangers (although I think it would be really, really nice to live in that world). At what point would I leave myself behind? When I see that I'm not up to the task at that moment. I've bowed out of a lot of groups because I was lagging, because I needed to re-watch a video, or I was just overtired. I don't expect people to form PF every time they want to learn something. Hopefully, the player base understands that most people are going to be new immediately following the release of additional content. For content that has both been out a while and is expected to be reasonably difficult (i.e. something with the word "extreme" in the title) I would definitely expect people to practice it the best they can with PF or even with DF. However, in the latter case, the new player should understand that DF is a complete crapshoot and they're likely to meet with some impatience. I'm not suggesting that they not DF it by any means. They'll just have to hang in there through the votekicks and disbanded parties. Hopefully, they'll understand that players don't owe them that learning time.

Titan is a terrible fight for newbies. I agree. It's really fun when you get the hang of it and fun is why we play the game but I hope SE will design fights a little differently in the future (few, if any, mechanics that completely remove people from battle). On the other hand, one shouldn't expect "Extreme" whatever to be newbie friendly.