Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[Dement]

Hi, I sell in Behemoth. I can tell you yes, most of my group of sellers is not willing to help someone with a clear unless it is a close friend. We will not join a "T11 clear party" on PF as a missing class. How many people would join a learning party of a complete stranger just to lend a helping hand? I've seen many "Please help! Moogle Ex!" or "T5 clear. Really need this..." on PF, did you consider joining?

Some of us help, yes, but please do understand we have our own patience. Wiping in a turn for an hour due to lack of DPS is not fun after an hour. I mean, if we are helping on our main DPS job, and the group barely beats the enrage timer, then do the rest of dps deserve that clear?

Another question is which contents are NEEDED? Coils are definitely not NEEDED, this is end content, hard mode primals is required, but I have never seen a sale for that. EX is not required but we get sales for that a lot, mostly for ponies.

I'm not sure how run-sellers factor into the discussion of people getting help on instances.Run-sellers don't help. Period. Every person they help for free is a customer gone. Run-sellers typically won't teach you a turn, they'll make you kill yourself and then 7-man it so that you can't screw it up. You walk out of the encounter worse than you went in because now you don't have the 100 sol message so people expect you to be experienced but you still don't have the slightest clue what's going on.

[Ashkendor]

I'm not sure how run-sellers factor into the discussion of people getting help on instances. Run-sellers don't help. Period. Every person they help for free is a customer gone.

That's a very broad brush to paint even a small portion of the raiding community with, so I can't agree. My static has actually been helped on every single turn since T9 by a fairly prominent run seller on my server. He genuinely enjoys running Coil and genuinely enjoys helping people clear. He's a really fun guy to be around, but isn't afraid to tell you exactly what you're screwing up and how you can fix it. I wish I had more opportunities to party with him, actually. The fact that he sells runs is basically the path of least resistance to earn gil. Some of us are good at crafting. Some of us are good at playing the market. He's really really good at raiding, and more power to him for making money from it.

There are going to be run sellers that will help, and there are going to be those that won't. *shrugs*

[Dement]

I do admit that may have been too broad of a stroke. What I was thinking of explicitly was not one run-seller helping out a mostly pre-made party but a group of run-sellers are not likely to take on an individual who needs the clear pro-bono. They wouldn't hand a clear over that they can charge for.

[ilmynasa]

snip

Sorry, was bit vague on that I guess. Some of my static members join teaching parties in a FC to help those who want the clear. But there are many people who goes in there, and expect to for a carry. We don't help those people.

I guess I'll give a specific example. 3 of my static is helping with a T13 clear. I was on my smn main dpsing. Our clear was right after the last akh morn, just as enrage gigaflare is casting. One melee is parsing below 350 for almost every pull, with echo, even after he got the weapon. And I think one of my static member already went to him regarding his rotation.

Us willing to help does not equal to people willing to listen. And not all sellers treat others as potential customers.

[Dement]

Sorry, was bit vague on that I guess. Some of my static members join teaching parties in a FC to help those who want the clear. But there are many people who goes in there, and expect to for a carry. We don't help those people.

I guess I'll give a specific example. 3 of my static is helping with a T13 clear. I was on my smn main dpsing. Our clear was right after the last akh morn, just as enrage gigaflare is casting. One melee is parsing below 350 for almost every pull, with echo, even after he got the weapon. And I think one of my static member already went to him regarding his rotation.

Us willing to help does not equal to people willing to listen. And not all sellers treat others as potential customers.

I suppose that's fair and I may have jumped on your comment too quick. I don't have a very optimistic view of run-sellers for the most part solely because I hate getting into farm parties where halfway through the first run it becomes painfully obvious that someone bought their original clear. But, to each their own and actually helping others learn and improve isn't a bad thing.

[Malevicton]

snippity

I'm also on behemoth and helped some random dude with a t5 just yesterday :P

Some run sellers might help people, some won't. They're still people at the end of the day. Being a run seller in and of itself doesn't make someone more or less likely to join learning parties.

[gamesmart]

I'm also on behemoth and helped some random dude with a t5 just yesterday :P

Some run sellers might help people, some won't. They're still people at the end of the day. Being a run seller in and of itself doesn't make someone more or less likely to join learning parties.

Supporting this as another seller, I help people in my FC through T5 whenever I have time. I'd also help with T9s but I'm currently in midterm season so I'm busy with that (and also working on a second relic).

Just because we're not in public shouting "FREE CARRIES COME AND GET SUM" doesn't mean we're not still helping people out.

I do admit that may have been too brought of a stroke. What I was thinking of explicitly was not one run-seller helping out a mostly pre-made party but a group of run-sellers are not likely to take on an individual who needs the clear pro-bono. They wouldn't hand a clear over that they can charge for.

I dunno, I've made and seen arrangements such as these before. It doesn't happen nearly as often, but it still does.

[ClaireAbigail]

Aaahhhh...another good thread ruined by the tumblr community of ffxiv. Btw op I agree with ya. Don't let the nay sayers bring you down. For me, I don't care if you're noob or the best player ever just don't be a burden to the party.

[Kyri]

The thing is, I really don't think most casuals are looking for an easy win. That's what elitists do.
Problem is... "Jimmy Noob" wants to do T10. He goes on DF. 40 mins later, he gets a group. One wipe, 2, tank leaves. Replenish ranks. Waiting... waiting... waiting... other ppl start to bail. OK, this isn't going anywhere. leave group.
OK, Maybe on PF jimmy has a better shot. "T10 learning party, come join " on PF. 10 minutes... 20 minutes, some DPS joins. 30 minutes, 1 hour... 2... now party has 5 ppl lacking 2 tanks and a healer. Then people start bailing out. 2 mins later the group only has Jimmy and a BLM who's AFK. Disband.
OK... let's see the other PF groups.
"T10 farm party. 100 sol = kick"
"T10 clear party, know fight or GTFO"
"T10 farm, need EXP"
So Jimmy goes on the DF again. after one hour of waiting, he gets a group. One wipe, tank goes all "you guys SUCK" and leave. 4 people leave in sequence. Vote Abandon comes.
Now,... what's the ONLY option left for Jimmy, I ask of you?

This. So much this.

Hey, their arms aren't broke either. Instead of lying to get into a group, why not put your own PF up to ask for help? I've seen it happen quite a lot on my server. It works.

Remember when they said :

OK, Maybe on PF jimmy has a better shot. "T10 learning party, come join " on PF. 10 minutes... 20 minutes, some DPS joins. 30 minutes, 1 hour... 2... now party has 5 ppl lacking 2 tanks and a healer. Then people start bailing out. 2 mins later the group only has Jimmy and a BLM who's AFK. Disband.
OK... let's see the other PF groups.
"T10 farm party. 100 sol = kick"
"T10 clear party, know fight or GTFO"
"T10 farm, need EXP"
So Jimmy goes on the DF again. after one hour of waiting, he gets a group. One wipe, tank goes all "you guys SUCK" and leave. 4 people leave in sequence. Vote Abandon comes.
Now,... what's the ONLY option left for Jimmy, I ask of you?

That's why. You can make the party but what good is it when noone who could help with any real experience doesn't join? I see these party's and they never fill up. Thus being said whether you make it or join it, they dont fill and people leave.

Or hell, maybe join a decent FC or LS. People who can't get groups for clears aren't completely blameless. Standing there screaming "no one wants to help me" and only making a half-assed attempt to try isn't going to do any good.

Ive tried out a few FC's. My husband tried a few others. all are -good- but they aren't much help. usually you'll see a fc/ls static or two that only go as the static, occasionally allowing a fc/ls member pug who as the other guy stated "is on farm status, no wipes" Too many put too much faith behind what a fc will help people do, when in reality the majority of fc's ive been in or heard my friends talk about just become small man cliques inside regardless.

I hate to say it, but maybe the problem in your examples is the player base on your server. :/

Possibly.. but the person your arguing with isn't on my server and everything he says rings truth to my server as well, and same can be said from similar complaints as this by multiple people on multiple forums on every server.

Sure the op can whine about how she wants too look at elitisim and change it's meaning (though I don't know why anyone would want to, I prefer to be considered a "End game or "skilled" player myself..) But the complaints are legit reasons why it's hard for people to progress. Yes, sometimes it is a case of a entitled whiney new age mmo'er who feels they deserve easy mode, but people seem to get this impression it's one side or the other, you cant have both a struggle to achieve goals while working hard because lucks just not in your favor. I have many very skilled friends who struggle not because they couldn't beat this stuff but because they join the wrong static, the one that falls apart and can't get a decent new one because now those statics want someone with more experience. If you do not jump on the bandwagon days after a fight is released it is very difficult to beat it.

I am considered a skilled player and I can beat things but due to some serious pregnancy issuies myself I spent the last 2 months in the hospital. Now could I have beaten t13? yep. Can I push myself to win? Of course. Can I join a pt because no one fills on the learning pts and I can't join the win partys because im not on farm status? Nope. This is a case where even as a Endgame orientated player as I might be unforeseen circumstances happened and now what? Im considered lowly? I don't try hard enough? I should just make that PF that never fills and then accept that I just don't have skill enough to win? Though many points are true on both sides of the argument in this topic people need to consider yes, it is hard to catch up sometimes if you didn't jump on the ball. And just because some people are having worse luck then you did doesn't mean they don't have a right to complain about the lack of help or wish they could get a lucky break because they -know- if they did they could farm it easily. Im not talking about entitled whiners here, im talking about people who do literally try and try hard but fall into unlucky scenarios that do happen.

[Sapphic]

That's why. You can make the party but what good is it when noone who could help with any real experience doesn't join? I see these party's and they never fill up. Thus being said whether you make it or join it, they dont fill and people leave.

Take names of those that did join, ask them if they want notifying for when you try again add them to friends list, or even make an LS and invite them. And try again, maybe a different person/s joins next time, take their names again, same thing. when you enough names taken organise between them all a day you can practice. Take it from there.

Also you don't need an experienced person in there to teach, learn together. If that is what they are really wanting to do. Also, there is access to experienced players knowledge, just do a quick google and you will find guides. Use them.

See? A little thought does help many situations if the effort is made.