Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[FeiXue]

Like don't get me wrong. I join learning parties when I have free time and I have no issue helping people who don't know mechanics learn then when they ask for help.
BUT
If you're looking for an experienced clear, BE EXPERIENCED. If you're dead weight and expecting to get carried, go and screw yourself.
If I ask if everyone knows what they're doing, and you refuse to ask about what to look out for, and you wipe the party, I WILL kick you.
If there is absolutely ZERO chance of clearing, and it's blatantly obvious, it only takes one wipe to find out. If I join a T5 party and you can't even kill a goddamn conflag, why the hell am I going to waste an hour trying to clear this shit if it's painfully obvious that you can't clear? Why waste time in a T9 clear if you can't even get to HF?
Just because YOU think it's possible doesn't mean it is. Anyone experienced can see if a run is actually possible in 3 runs at most. If it's not possible, you're just wasting our time.

[sackm]

so...everyone who wants to learn a fight and wants to be good is an elitist?
because that is what you actually are saying. If I go into a fight, I want to win. if we wipe I laugh about it, remember my mistakes and try to not do them again, because I want to be as good as possible. If new people are with me, I explain everything and hope they try their best.

But I do not see that as elitist..I see that as normal human behaviour o...,o. Try to be the very best like no one every was.

if only everyone had this mentality, we would have oodles of difficult content flowing from SE. instead we are stuck with 1 hardcore raid every 6 months because people can't be bothered to even learn their basic rotation

[Cyrus-Wallace]

if only everyone had this mentality, we would have oodles of difficult content flowing from SE. instead we are stuck with 1 hardcore raid every 6 months because people can't be bothered to even learn their basic rotation

Meh, people cry over difficult content. Remember Pharos? nerfed to the ground. Some people complained and said "The reward is not good enough". WTH?! Isn't the challenge good enough?! Why do you need a reward for everything you do?! Steps? Probs to get nerfed too, based on the Nico Nico interview. If you introduce some "hard content", people will whine about it because "it's out of their reach" and every party they're in "they fail because of the other 7 guys". We can't attain that mindset with the current playerbase, because you saw the results. Ask SE to nerf T9, you'll be flooded with likes by other players. Just to give an example.

Some people play this game "for fun", and apparently a challenging encounter is "not fun". Then they complain at SE because "they don't know how to handle the mechanics and T9 (again and as example) is a bad design". Then they won't give any alternative and if they do, it'll end up being super easy and everybody will faceroll it in no time. Like any single player game.

It's true that people don't care "to be a good player", they only play "for fun" and then they post on the forums "how X content is not fun for them because of <<elitist>>, "bad design" (design that they can't clear or understand), lag, too hard, don't bother to learn".

[RathSkybreaker]

snip

.I think you're missing a key point here. Yeah, the OP became good, but he likely jumped in early when no one knew how the fights were done and did it when the content was fresh and learned through the plethora of learning parties that are prevalent around that stage of the game. If you jump in 4 patches down the road and expect people to just be hunky dorey with you because you're new to a fight that has been out for months, then you're kidding yourself. I mean seriously do you really think when he says "I've watched the party from the floor and wished them luck" or however he says that in the OP, that he means it from the standpoint of a farm party? No, he was probably in a learning party busting his ass.

But don't get me wrong, I think it sucks that new players go through this, but that's just how it is. People who spent a butt load of time learning fights don't want to go back and spend butt loads of time re learning fights for people behind the curve, can you blame them?

There will -always- be a sense of elitism, why? Because old content that retain difficult mechanics and gate other content will be phased out by the community who actively keep up with the game, and those guys want to go in and farm, not wipe for hours. I mean, it's just a fact of life when you're behind the curve, there will always be people who come in late and want to learn, which is fine, but make learning parties, you think the guy who made this post just jumped into farm parties to be that guy and piss everyone off with a soldiery bonus? Probably not, he did his time, just like everyone else whose cleared those fights x months ago.

As someone heavily involved with endgame in this god forsaken game, I don't have any pity for people who want to jump into farm parties with no clears, no experience, just for a handout, I'm not expecting you to put the same amount of time I did into clearing the fights, it wouldn't make sense for you to, you have more gear, more resources, everything gives you an advantage, but if you seriously want to try to get into the inner circles of doing this type of content, getting carried is a good way to get a stigma to your name where no one will want to play with you in any form of serious content.

[Lemuria]

Meh, people cry over difficult content.

While I agree to an extent, there is also plenty of content where small errors can grow wildly out of control. The margin for error grows much narrower, and even if only one team member makes a mistake the entire team can suffer as a result. Coil is a good example of this, and a good example of why there needs to be a selection of lower difficulty content.

It's not really the difficulty that everyone has problems with. It's the teamwork aspect. In virtually every area of the game, you're encouraged to be independent. Story quests are solo affairs, dungeons don't require a great deal of coordination and DPS largely just have to hit things as hard as they can. When you take those players and put them into content where everyone has to coordinate with each other it becomes 8 people doing their own solo play and simply trying not to die themselves.

The problem is information overload. There's just too much to keep track of, and it's very hard to get into a mindset where you can do your role properly AND focus on everything else going on. If you're a healer, you're trying to cure 7 other people whilst dodging a billion AoE's, and remembering to pass on that Allagan Rot or that [insert mechanic here]. If you're a DPS you're focusing on getting the right rotation out, despite all the dodging you need to do, since it's critical to deal X amount of damage in Y amount of time or the team will fail.

The problem, in my opinion, isn't that the players want things to be easy, it's simply because there's no progressive means of reaching that plateau. The two types of content available are wildly different in how they play overall. Still don't believe me? Take a look at Crystal Tower.

Crystal Tower is a good example because of how things changed drastically after the first raid. In it, your job is to split parties into individual roles. Each party relies more heavily on the others and each one has their own tasks to perform. Because of this, it was a disaster at launch with people decrying how difficult it was. Look at Syrcus Tower, the subsequent follow-up. Streamlined, easier content. Less teamwork heavy, so that if someone screws up the entire raid can still manage fine. There are very few instant-kill mechanics, and those that do exist are heavily telegraphed.

Now, finally, look at World of Darkness. Very much similar to Syrcus Tower, it's a very streamlined raid. It gently introduces some new mechanics, such as revisiting the Atomos and Cerberus' belly. However, neither one of those is particularly difficult and missing out on Cerberus' belly won't prevent you winning, even if it does greatly increase the time taken to win. It's far more progressive overall.

The point I'm making is that when the content is so different to everything else you've played, it takes time for players to get used to the idea. Some learn faster than others, but others will always have difficulty with the sheer number of things they have to remember to do. Or not to do. It's far too easy to label a player as terrible when they were so focused on avoiding that ONE thing that they triggered another. And unfortunately, that's virtually every coil ever.

[Lilyarel]

You should probably calm down.
Just saying.
I will admit that FF14 thinks Memorizing = Difficulty. And I wish 3.0 isnt like that.

[LalaRu]

Remember Pharos?

I had a dream... Pharos returning back to its original glory...



Then I woke up and it were only a dream... cry...

[Jamein]

Coil is a good example of this, and a good example of why there needs to be a selection of lower difficulty content.

Honestly, I just don't agree. 90% of the game is easy content, dungeons/towers/trials (even extremes to be honest) is relatively low - mid level difficulty. Even first and second coil has been reduced to mid range content and FCOB is on its way their now with overgearing and echo.

As for the whole relying on 7 other people thing, I agree it can be a pain when one person insta wipes you, but for me the main issue comes down to people just not thinking.
T9 is a prime example of this, mechanically it is harder than t13, granted its now a little faceroll due to overgearing and echo but still the mechanics are there, this can be done in PF, hell its been done in DF. So if people can do it, the only excuse others have, is that they are not trying to improve or pulling their weight. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it's just true there is no special skill set required in this game, nothing requires you to have lightning quick reflexes, everything can be learned and you can improve with some thought and effort and knowledge of both your class and the mechanics.

Playing your class to its maximum and knowing the mechanics and the most optimum way to heal/DPS/position the boss/adds and to continue your role is what end game raiding is all about.

The main reason I think people fail at end game, is they have ZERO raid awareness, they are so focused on dodging that next mechanic that they don't see what the hell is going on around them, if everyone had better raid awareness then DF groups would be fantastic, people could adjust on the fly to a bad meteor placement. Double ice about to hit you? No worries just gonna chase down that fire out. Instead people just tunnel vision trying to do their classes role which is not how it should be, you should know your class inside out, that should just be muscle memory and second nature to you.

It sounds like I'm being an ass and just telling people to get better, and in a way I guess I am but my point is, end game raiders or 'elitists' are not some sort of super genius, they're not some sort of athlete with lightning fast reflexes, average people who have just put the time and effort in to know the game, that's ALL it takes. So in other words...anyone can do it. Unfortunately some people would rather come and ask for nerfs/echo in end game, and then they ask for nerfs in steps, and then they pull 200 DPS in WOD, and still wonder why they can't down T5.

Being an elitist and an asshole are not the same thing, but sometimes I can see how end game raiders get a little annoyed when they go back to do old content and people are wiping left and right. On the flip side, people getting annoyed at end game raiders because they say everythings easy, take a step back and ask yourself why you haven't cleared X content, is it REALLY because of the 7 other people, or do you need to go back to basics and get better.

[Aeyis]

Then let me put this in a way you can comprehend.

You have an obligation as a human being to not be a liability to everyone around you.

Ah. A day back on the forums and I'm already reminded why I put half the people here on ignore.


If you are going to write something this stupid and incorrect, atleast try to make it sound funny so its enjoyable to read, yes?

Being an elitist and an asshole are not the same thing

But it does not help that theres a lot of assholes arguing that elitism is a good thing.

The problem is information overload.

I won't speak for everyone else, but for me the only limiting factor in the game is the ridiculous delays. If the game was actually in realtime instead of realtime + lolserverdelay + letsplayagameofcardswhileiwaitforcastdelay, it would be a lot more forgiving for people, I think.

[Elazu]

so...everyone who wants to learn a fight and wants to be good is an elitist?

This is how it is these days, I feel. Especially on here, people call every raider an "elitist" just because raiders do content they can't do.