1vs1 Duel Battles

[Cidel]

And? Provided 1v1s are open world and reward-less, players can balance matches themselves if they want to take a match seriously.

1) If they are rewardless, they will mostly serve as e-peen stroking/ bother people.
2) No, players really can't balance most match-ups themselves without handicapping their opponent or themselves. "Make your attacks not interrupt my casting." "No healing yourself with spells because I don't have those." No really, I want to know what "balancing themselves" entails.
3) That's almost like releasing face-roll end-game content and telling the players to find ways to gimp themselves so that it's challenging.
4) Some people will take duels seriously and refuse to gimp themselves for balance. Or better yet, "cheat" (which is subjective).

Slap 1v1 requests behind a PvP Rank requirement and problem solved... Only people who'd have to put up with such harassment would be people who went for the Glamours alone,

And then it becomes more cumbersome than I'm willing to bet the devs care to do. There will be of course people who don't want to 1 v 1 for their own personal reasons, not just poor unfortunate souls who liked the PvP sets. There's also a lot of people simply win-trading in WD for the challenge log.

We have a Blacklist and GMs, why is this even a point? People who want to harass already can, trade blocks for example.

That still leaves much ambiguity on the GM's part if you foresee it being a form of harassment like a trade-block. "I just wanted to duel him." Harassment for me being more along the lines of personal vendettas or public slandering. True, we already have this, but why add more?

And yes, I'm aware of the Black list, but I'm under the influence that it's there solely as our one RMT deterrent. /sarcasm.

[Nalien]

1) If they are rewardless, they will mostly serve as e-peen stroking/ bother people.

Or, you know, using them to practice in a way which doesn't negatively impact team based PvP, or just as something to do with friends while waiting between queues. I'd certainly rather PvP while waiting to PvP. Actually I'd be more willing to wait on that queue if I could PvP during it. If that same is true for others, that would have a positive impact on queue times.

Also, how would they bother people if there was a restriction on who you can send requests to? Seriously...

2) No, players really can't balance most match-ups themselves without handicapping their opponent or themselves. "Make your attacks not interrupt my casting." "No healing yourself with spells because I don't have those." No really, I want to know what "balancing themselves" entails.

Players can balance matches themselves by not going into a obviously one sided Job match-up... How is that hard to understand? If you want a serious match, you're not going to go as something which is at a severe disadvantage to your opponent, not unless you're extremely confident. If you want a serious match you can very easily organize same verses same to see who is the better whatever.

3) That's almost like releasing face-roll end-game content and telling the players to find ways to gimp themselves so that it's challenging.

I don't even know what your point is here.

4) Some people will take duels seriously and refuse to gimp themselves for balance. Or better yet, "cheat" (which is subjective).

If someone is going to take duels so serious that they'd demand their opponent is at a disadvantage to them based on Job, well... They're a shithead. That isn't taking duels seriously, that's just giving yourself an advantage.

And then it becomes more cumbersome than I'm willing to bet the devs care to do. There will be of course people who don't want to 1 v 1 for their own personal reasons, not just poor unfortunate souls who liked the PvP sets. There's also a lot of people simply win-trading in WD for the challenge log.

How would it be more cumbersome if they put in less work? No rewards means less work. Why would people win trade duels if there is no rewards? Heck, they could literally just slap Duels behind Friend Requests and I'd be fine with that, more so than Mog Mail anyway. Personally I only really want to 1v1 friends to pass the time anyway. Easy enough to make friends with other PvPers to do the same, could still use it for serious challenges. Would prevent people from harassing with it as well, someone wants to be a shithead, unfriend them.

That still leaves much ambiguity on the GM's part if you foresee it being a form of harassment like a trade-block. "I just wanted to duel him." Harassment for me being more along the lines of personal vendettas or public slandering. True, we already have this, but why add more?

Well, above point aside... "I just wanted to duel him" isn't a defense when the person is harassing someone by sending requests ad nauseum and refusing to accept no for an answer. That is what I assume we all mean by "duel harasment", anyway. Something similar to what we get with Triple Triad where you can occasionally get the odd request isn't really harassment IMO. Either someone is aggressively seeking a match or they're not, it's pretty clear cut when someone is harassing.

[CeveArthu]

Honestly even though both of you are getting slightly mad at each other in the argument, that was a pretty constructive discussion

[Cidel]

Had a wall of text written out, but honestly, it's not worth it. I could keep going but-

Why do topics about Duels always fall into debates about balance... Who cares about balance with Duels?

Personally I only really want to 1v1 friends to pass the time anyway.

-mentality makes it hard to even find a common argument, amongst other things (especially balance). You can have it if it's "friends list only."

Bottom line is, duels implemented in a "any time, any where" basis will likely just breed more drama, spiteful call-outs (hey, sounds like every popular online fighting game I've played!) I mean, the "Fresh Meat" thing was probably their attempt to dissuade this.

We will agree to disagree.

At this point, I don't care. If people want to throw job balancing out the window and it's main purpose would be for face-rolling less-blessed jobs and calling out that guy who outrolled you only harmless "fun", then keep bugging the devs. I won't be a part of it.



"I'm out"

[jinda]

many are complaining baout harrassment or longer qeue as consequences of 1 vs 1. here is my suggestion and please game develepor take time to read this and reconsider.

1. if harrassment is the issue, then create a zone that is optional for players to challenge other players. try to make a zone requirement of specific level or ilevel so that only those of matched attributes can fight and have a competitive play. if you dont want to be harrassed or play any duel just stay out of the area.

2. longer qeue? how about a prerequisite to entering the zone is any pvp qeue. so while waiting, it buys a some time. again no reward for 1 vs1. just simply a competitive duel.
*if you can get the picture of this suggestions, you can make a story out of this with concept of sparring or practice before the real deal which is the frontline or wolves den. it is simply q quick frndly sparring.

[Voldemort]

What about deaths in 1v1 PvP?
If 1v1 is supposed to be non-instanced (like a leve quest), then when a player dies would they not have to be resurrected or forced to return to Home aetheryte?

If 1v1 is supposed to be instanced as to avoid this, then I doubt 1v1 can be used to "pass the time in between queues" because you can't be in an instance while queuing for something else. Heck, even having your chocobo out in the open world prevents you from queuing, much less being in a 1v1 instance.


Not to mention if 1v1 was time-based (as someone mentioned it could be set up as most kills after 10 minutes wins), then this doesn't help with queuing either.
As 5 minutes into the Duel, one of the players gets their queue and has to force quit out.

Also if there are no rewards for 1v1 duels, then I can't see this system being used much. The argument utilized in this thread is that players can casually duel while waiting for real pvp matches (frontlines, Wolves Den). However, there are an incredible amount of other things that can be done while queuing that actually give rewards.
- Mining resources
- Crafting items to sell on the market board
- Grinding monsters for item drops with friends
- Beast tribe crafting/gathering quests
- Grand Company provisions
- Farming MGP in the gold saucer
....

So if there are plenty of side stuff than have rewards attached, how often will this 1v1 feature with no rewards be utilized?

Not to mention when you queue for PvP, it is across the data center for multiple servers. When you try to 1v1 PvP, you can only do this with those on your own. So even less people who are actively wanting to 1v1 that has no rewards attached.

[Nalien]

What about deaths in 1v1 PvP?
If 1v1 is supposed to be non-instanced (like a leve quest), then when a player dies would they not have to be resurrected or forced to return to Home aetheryte?

Die at the end of Frontlines/Wolves' Den and leave while you're still dead without hitting return. When you get back to wherever you were when you entered the instance, you'll automatically be raised. I see no real reason Duels can't work the same way.

Not to mention if 1v1 was time-based (as someone mentioned it could be set up as most kills after 10 minutes wins), then this doesn't help with queuing either.
As 5 minutes into the Duel, one of the players gets their queue and has to force quit out.

That only really negatively impacts the Duel. For queues it would either have no impact, or a positive one. I like to think that if PvPers could PvP while waiting for Frontlines, they'd be more forgiving of the queue timer, meaning more people might actually tolerate it, resulting in more people queuing. Grand Company restrictions aside, PvP in this game suffers quite a lot from a negative feedback loop; Less people start queuing, queues get longer as a result, people see longer queue timers and stop queuing, etc.. I like to think the ability to actually PvP while waiting would help alleviate that somewhat. Wouldn't be an amazing fix to queue timers, but it's something to consider.

Also if there are no rewards for 1v1 duels, then I can't see this system being used much. The argument utilized in this thread is that players can casually duel while waiting for real pvp matches (frontlines, Wolves Den). However, there are an incredible amount of other things that can be done while queuing that actually give rewards.

And none of those things are PvP. Guess what I'm interested in doing when I queue for PvP? That's right, PvP. Going off and mining does not scratch that itch, however 1v1s would. That's the point I'm making here.

I would hope that is true for everyone; When you queue for PvP it is because you want to PvP. Currently you have to wait for the queue before you can PvP. Duels would allow you to PvP during the queue. How is that anything but a good thing?

Not to mention when you queue for PvP, it is across the data center for multiple servers. When you try to 1v1 PvP, you can only do this with those on your own. So even less people who are actively wanting to 1v1 that has no rewards attached.

I'm not sure what it is like on every server, but despite PvP being fairly unpopular for most of the playerbase, there are still PvP communities/LS about. Actually recently I've noticed a fair number of people frequenting Wolves' Den Pier, just standing around waiting for (presumably) Frontlines queues. I don't know them, but I wouldn't mind 1v1ing to pass the time for that queue. Then there are just friends I could 1v1 whenever, I'd at least get plenty of use out of it. Certainly more than almost any of the content you just listed.

How often Duels would be used doesn't even really matter all that much. If it was like Wolves' Den, with rewards and achievements, then it would perhaps be an issue, but without that, Dueling is just a tool. Either for practice, to pass the time, to settle arguments, for "serious" players to seek challenges, whatever. As I've explained earlier, pretty much everything required to implement Duels is already present in the game; Triple Triad has the request interface and select locations. Mog Mail has the Friendlist lock if that is viewed as required. Levequests have the time limit/open world activity that doesn't interrupt queues. Wolves' Den Pier/PvP in general has the on/off function for PvP actions. Very little work would really have to go into implementing Duels, certainly far far less than whatever is going into the new 3.0 Frontlines map which will eventually see little use due to queue timers, and eventually even less when they replace it (I miss you Secure T_T).