A small request of SE

[Durthane]

The other option I guess which might make people more convinced is if we had some tougher looking enemies there. Say instead of just Brass Blades we had a couple of Sultansworn Elite arrest us. We know the Monetarists have members of the Sultansworn Elite in there pocket.

True, but I think story wise the Sultansworn and flames where otherwise engaged at that moment. Otherwise the Blades/Braves wouldn't have had such free reign. Exactly WHAT the Paladins where doing I can't fathom, some bodyguards. /sigh

[Rannie]

snip

Don't get me wrong I agree that they could have done things in different ways. The fact is they didn't. They went the way they wanted to with it. There are no plot holes in how it happened, in there are logical reasons as to why the character surrendered as they did. Not that it always has to be spelled out. Some people don't like it because of the whole my character is this bad ass that can take on anything and anyone at any given time Ie: the superman complex . But what this story is showing that in the end it all boils down to the character is still a mortal and even though they are blessed by a goddess (even with the blessing of light taken away they still have the echo), they still have frailties and when shit hits the fan it's not always going to work out like people are wanting it too.

I wouldn't call them stupid in any way shape or form. I will admit people are able to have their own opinions until they stubbornly insist that illogical things should have happened. (And to me that's more being stubborn than stupid. I know I'm one stubborn person as well)

The way I'm figuring it is, yes we were surrounded. However we only saw a few of the guards and such due to restraints on the systems (meaning ps3, ps4 and lower end pc limitations, Yes I said it limitations.) also the time it takes just to program and draw everything into the scenario. Basically leaving it up to the imagination also there were audio clues as well. The whole place being surrounded by Brass Blades and Crystal Braves. Also they were wanting to finish the story line as quickly as possible just in case they needed to work more on heavensward, they still have that to do and i believe other games as well unless they're dedicated completely to FFXIV, I can't be too sure due to not working there. I mean hell point in fact we have Nomura that is not just working on final fantasy xv as producer but he also has the kingdom hearts series as his baby project.

In the end could they have done it differently? Yes they probably could have. Did they have the time to do it differently? That I can't say 100% yes on. Did they do it differently? No, they didn't.

[Rannie]

True, but I think story wise the Sultansworn and flames where otherwise engaged at that moment. Otherwise the Blades/Braves wouldn't have had such free reign. Exactly WHAT the Paladins where doing I can't fathom, some bodyguards. /sigh

there are quite a few paladin's that were in the pay of Lolorito per the pld story quests. Doesn't say if they were purged yet or not nor how many of them were exactly in his pay and it can take time to purge the traitors out.

[Bombast]

Exactly WHAT the Paladins where doing I can't fathom, some bodyguards. /sigh

The Sultansworn is absolutely riddled with Monetarist, to the point of being essentially useless when it comes to their namesake duty.

[Cilia]

My argument is not that the PC should have been allowed to kill everything in his/her path and bash a way to victory or that they could have in any case. Rahbaun needing a handicap sticker for his chocobo is proof enough that the situation bodes ill for heroism and reckless violence in this particular case. MY argument is that SE should have acted to maintain the players sense of control over the PC's persona. Remove the PC's ability to act in a meaningful way so we have a reason to play the observer no matter the temperament, as it is I am left with evidence that when it suits them SE will take away control of the simplest aspect of my characters persona when they feel like it which is very bad form in an MMO.

Oh boy, another "my character's persona" argument. Uggh...

... you don't have total control over your character's persona, like it or not. There have to be limitations to free will, as there often are in video games, to keep the story flowing. There are too many possibilities for the game designers to program everything in, such as refusing to take the vial, leaving it elsewhere, telling many citizens about it, not going to see the Sultana because suspicious stuff is going on, fighting back against Ilberd, not leaving the Scions behind, etc. Any one of those options could be or not be in any given PC's persona, and myriad other possibilities - there just isn't enough time to write or program for all of them.

I abandoned trying to create my own independent persona when I was charged with being "Eorzea's hope," as Minfilia put it. I never asked for this.

And not to sling mud, but before complaining about how your "character's persona" isn't under your total control, you might want to change your name to something that makes sense for a Seeker of the Sun miqo'te unless you have a plausible backstory as to how she came to get such a name or adopt it as a pseudonym... "Remedia Pancea" isn't a miqo'te name. Just sayin'.

True, but I think story wise the Sultansworn and flames where otherwise engaged at that moment. Otherwise the Blades/Braves wouldn't have had such free reign. Exactly WHAT the Paladins where doing I can't fathom, some bodyguards. /sigh

It's well-known that despite being a Royalist faction a number of the Sultansworn are being paid off by the Monetarists. The Immortal Flames had been moved out to assist with the defense of the Steps of Faith, hence the Brass Blades' increased authority in Ul'dah at the time of the incident.

[Durthane]

And not to sling mud, but before complaining about how your "character's persona" isn't under your total control, you might want to change your name to something that makes sense for a Seeker of the Sun miqo'te unless you have a plausible backstory as to how she came to get such a name or adopt it as a pseudonym... "Remedia Pancea" isn't a miqo'te name. Just sayin'

But that is what it is... Not going to detail my characters entire backstory here, but it isn't the name given at birth obviously.

Honestly it's a name I made up at random for the Whm in Final fantasy way back when. I just write backstories around it when playing female characters. The last name was just to continue the theme of the first though I regret it a bit now.

My account name Durthane was a name I made up for a greatsword in Vagrant Story, originaly was Durthang but I came to find out Tolkien stole it about 50 years before I came up with it XD.

Kinda funny how my made up names that stick come from Square games now that I look at it.

[Belhi]

I actually suspect that since we didn't see the Immortal Flames around Ishgard during the battle, they actually moved to take over the responsibilities of the Crystal Braves who had been acting as peacekeepers in Ul'dah since 2.4. This is also probably the reason they had such a presence in the city. They had been active in the area for quite some time and were overseeing security of such an important meeting.

As for character's persona, I think they went on the assumption that the player character was intelligent enough to realise what getting violent would result in. Your character is clearly unhappy at the situation, and the obvious logic would be that your character realised how cornered they were. Again, the Monetarists may have been behind the assassination but without proof the law was firmly on there side and none of the open actions they had taken such as the character's arrest were all fully within the bounds of the law.

[DragonSlayer45]

Ah, the curious case of gameplay and story segregation. Look back at some previous Final Fantasy games, I'll use FFX as an example. You just stormed Bevelle, killed a bunch of Warrior Monks on your way up the temple to save Yuna, cutscene starts and the same Warrior Monks you were slaughtering two minutes ago are now holding you at gunpoint.

Fast forward to this game, and its almost the exact same case. Look at it from a story standpoint: We were in no position to fight. If we did, that would have made us look all the more guilty if we left a trail of Brass Blade/Crystal Braves corpses in our wake and fled.

Look at Raubahn. He killed Teledji in plain view of everyone there. Where is he now? Oh yeah, rotting in a jail cell underneath Ul'dah. It would have been the same for us had we fought back, or worse, we could have been killed because we were outnumbered 10-to-1. (I'm pretty sure the Monetarists had no intention of keeping us alive if they did end up capturing us.)

Sure, if this was a gameplay segment, we could have probably fought back and fled almost unscathed. But that's not the case here. We aren't some immortal god that can hack and slash their way through everything. We are still human, we can still be killed, and in a situation where you are hopelessly outnumbered, the best course of action is to run and live to fight another day. In every situation, even against primals, Garlean generals or bloodthirsty beasts from Coil, we aren't fighting them alone.

As for the vial, I do agree that it was a bit stupid for our character to wander around with it especially since it was Laurentius, of all people, who told us to hold on to it. Did my character seriously forget that he tried to kill us very early on in 2.0, or are we just that quick to forgive? Anyway, this was the only part of the story I found a bit egregious.

[Rannie]

@dragonslayer 45 that can be chalked up to the WoL believing in second chances (I mean hell dude at the tavern between quarrymill and tranquil even said that about being a good second chance for Laurentis after all he had done. The character even did it for Wilred... poor Wilred). Naturally you are sort of suspicous of the Vial and even took it to the vaunted Momondi who couldn't tell what had been in it. So you chalked it up as a problem to put on the back burner because you HAD to hurry to go see the sultana.

[Belhi]

As for the vial, I do agree that it was a bit stupid for our character to wander around with it especially since it was Laurentius, of all people, who told us to hold on to it. Did my character seriously forget that he tried to kill us very early on in 2.0, or are we just that quick to forgive? Anyway, this was the only part of the story I found a bit egregious.

To be fair to the character, we were relying on the character judgement of Buscarron who seemed to think the boy had just lost his way and was still good at heart. Second chances and all that. In some cases those second chances pay off. Wilred was loyal and sadly paid for that loyalty. He didn't squander his second chance. Laurentius apparently has. I'm hoping that when we met him again he doesn't get a third chance.

Edit: Beaten to it:P