A small request of SE

[Cilia]

No, no, no, the crux of these arguments isn't "I could have carved a trail of blood out of Ul'dah." The crux is that "we didn't have an option to," when lots of role players have established their PC is a spitfire who won't take things lying down. We didn't get have the option to do anything about the frame job, and that kind of ruins the immersion - the real problem people have with the ending... but immersion is ruined in pretty much every cutscene, where things happen you don't influence and your character agrees to do pretty much everything everyone asks of them.

Also why I brought up the name thing, because if you really want immersion you should have a name that makes sense for your race/sex. (And it's a bit pedantic, but I'm pretty sure you were going for Panacea.)

People love being lauded by the NPCs in cutscenes, but when you're slandered now losing control is "unfair" and "my PC would never react like that" etc. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Rannie]

To be fair to the character, we were relying on the character judgement of Buscarron who seemed to think the boy had just lost his way and was still good at heart. Second chances and all that. In some cases those second chances pay off. Wilred was loyal and sadly paid for that loyalty. He didn't squander his second chance. Laurentius apparently has. I'm hoping that when we met him again he doesn't get a third chance.

Edit: Beaten to it:P

lol sorry you at least got his name right....

mmmm cake... I wonder if I have any birthday cake left over... it's only 8 days old... chocolate cake w/chocolate frosting.. *drools*

[Durthane]

Actually, I dislike the constant reminders of how great we are supposed to be. But thats just me I suppose, never know what to do with a sincere compliment and most the compliments towards our characters don't feel sincere at that.

As to the constant immersion breaking, the small stuff we have to just overlook. We agree to be errand boys/girls because that's what the fetch quests require. It could be writen better but it's what it is. It leaves our characters motives up to us along with the bulk of their personalities, except the fact we have chronic hero syndrome which can't be helped.

In the ending SE dictated our characters motives much to tightly when it wasn't necessary, that's the problem I have with it.

Though a couple dialog choices would be nice on occasion, similar to the Gaius confrontation.

As to the name, I intentionally took out the second a, just naming a character the exact word would seem... I dunno, lazy? Cheap? XD

[Dererk]

I don't understand why we need to team up with the crystal braves flames and Yugiris ninjas to take down one woman in the last story fight in 2.4 it baffles me I mean we so strong.

Wait right there was a whole Garlan force backing her up.

if we needed that many people and groups for 1 woman and her 30 man back up can't imagine how many wed need for the whole brass blades and braves combine.

[Cilia]

Actually, I dislike the constant reminders of how great we are supposed to be. But thats just me I suppose, never know what to do with a sincere compliment and most the compliments towards our characters don't feel sincere at that.

As to the constant immersion breaking, the small stuff we have to just overlook. We agree to be errand boys/girls because that's what the fetch quests require. It could be writen better but it's what it is. It leaves our characters motives up to us along with the bulk of their personalities, except the fact we have chronic hero syndrome which can't be helped.

In the ending SE dictated our characters motives much to tightly when it wasn't necessary, that's the problem I have with it.

Though a couple dialog choices would be nice on occasion, similar to the Gaius confrontation.

I know, right? I'm glad I'm not the only one who got tired of being adored by Eorzea. I mean, I didn't do anything special... kind of why I'm a only a little worried about losing Hydaelyn's protection (no-win situations like Ultima). I'll earn the praise myself.

Chronic Hero Syndrome can be helped, it just takes time and effort SE doesn't have. Just like putting in alternate options people want but won't get (letting me steal Animus Books from G'jusana, f'ex).

Dictated your character's motives for accepting what happened? OK, pick one:
1. They knew they couldn't win in a fight against the two standing armies in Ul'dah.
2. They knew they had been outplayed and fighting would just make things worse.
3. They were in shock from Namamo's sudden and unexpected death (after the Sultana dies).
4. They understood what Raubahn and the Scions were willing to sacrifice to see things set right and fully intend to honor those sacrifices (after Raubahn frees you and the Scions cover your escape).
5. They're a damn dirty coward.

Your character already shakes their head at Teledji's accusation. Dialogue options?
Teledji Adeledji: "You! You did this!"
1. "It wasn't me!"
2. "You set this up!"
3. "I have no idea what's going on!"
4. "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries!"
Teledji Adeledji: "Lies! I see no other suspects, and the room has but the one entrance! Men, arrest this viper!"

... and the ever-popular...
5. "..."
Teledji Adeledji: "So you admit your guilt? I see no other suspects, and the room has but the one entrance! Men, arrest this viper!"

There was no glory to be had, no version of this where we could have come out on top. Getting hung up on the details is pointless.

[ColdestHeaven]

4. "Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elderberries!"

This choice, unbeknownst to us, would unlock the secret ending where the Sultana switched the glasses à la James Bond and then wakes up and then everyone laughs. Great party at the Rising Stones while Lolorito stands in a corner with the pointy sugarloaf hat from Brayflox, sulking - wondering whatever went wrong. And why did he let SE place that dreadful hat on his head.

[Cilia]

This choice, unbeknownst to us, would unlock the secret ending where the Sultana switched the glasses à la James Bond and then wakes up and then everyone laughs. Great party at the Rising Stones while Lolorito stands in a corner with the pointy sugarloaf hat from Brayflox, sulking - wondering whatever went wrong. And why did he let SE place that dreadful hat on his head.

Nah I'm fine with that, because then we wouldn't get this in the future... dialogue is more fitting for Teledji, but still.

Lolorito: "Omega will be operational. Nothing will change that. What have I to fear?"

Warrior of Light: "The Avengers. That's what I like to call us; we're sort of like a team. "Eorzea's Mightiest Heroes" type thing."

Lolorito: "Yes, I've met them."

Warrior of Light: "Yeah, takes us a while to get any traction, I'll give you that one. But let's do a head count here: the ex-pirate captain leader of a confederacy who might not be so "ex;" an ageless druid who can pretty much control nature; a refugee war hero who got a 1000 match win streak in the pit; a knight who broke the the mold in a caste-based society; all of the Scions, and YOU, big fella, you've managed to piss off every single one of them."

Lolorito: "That was the plan."

Warrior of Light: "Not a great plan. When they come, and they will, they'll come for you."

Lolorito: "I have two armies and Omega."

Warrior of Light: "We took down Ultima."

Lolorito: "That thing's a toy in comparison..."

Warrior of Light: "You're missing the point! There's no throne, there is no version of this where you come out on top. Maybe you activate Omega and maybe it's too much for us but it's all on you. Because if we can't protect Eorzea you can be damn well sure we'll avenge it!"

...

...

...

Warrior of Light: "Oh yeah, and there's one other person you pissed off! Her name is Nanamo."

EDIT: Included Aymeric, just in case. Also, Marvel Cinematic Universe content copyright Disney, all rights reserved. I don't own any of it, there's no way to profit off it, and it's parody anyway so please don't sue me!

[Nalien]

In my headcanon, Ilberd was never obviously a traitor. He walks in with Nanamo dead, you think you can explain to him, but he is outraged (him and Raubahn were bestest bros, right?) and he knocks you out. Meaning you're weakened for the entirety of the escape meaning it actually makes more sense. It would also have given Ilberds betrayal much more impact if it wasn't telegraphed updates in advance... As it stands it was like opening The Half-Blood Prince and the first line being "Snape kills Dumbledore". The whole Crystal Braves betrayal just wasn't effectively written in my opinion, as a plot twist it would have been amazing, instead I just sat there going "when is it going to happen?" constantly.


I'd also have had it revealed to everyone that the Warrior of Light has lost the Blessing of Light. How would Teledji Adeledji/Lolorito know that? Who bloody cares. That would have actually given some more weight to the entire affair, granted I don't think many NPCs are aware of the Blessing, but I do recall the Grand Company Leaders acknowledging it during an early cutscene. Suddenly you've gone from the paragon of virtue, blessed by the Goddess herself, to just another adventurer in every NPCs eyes. Why'd you lose the Blessing? Well we know what really happened, but if you're unaware of that (like every NPC is) you can paint a much darker picture of your character, one which backs up the claims of regicide. Oh, suddenly I'm not in a situation where the claims are absolutely laughable at best. Suddenly I'm feeling ramifications for losing the Blessing, because "Oh no! You've lost the Blessing of Light? Well, go do the impossible and kill an Ascian then!" certainly didn't make me feel like I'd lost anything, if anything I felt more powerful...

Instead we have this hilarious situation where you've been accused of regicide, lost most of your major allies, yet feel invincible. Everyone you talk to either outright rejects claims of your betrayal, is going solely off patchy rumors and are mostly unaware as a result, or is trying their hardest not to piss themselves with fear at your mere presence. I think it was a mistake to focus so heavily on the WoL during most of these dialog changes, one of the most effective ones (and I'm not even sure if it's a change?) is in Little Ala Mhigo regarding the Crystal Brave we recruited from there. If more of the dialog added following the main scenario were about NPCs I'd perhaps care more, because the NPCs are the ones in a shitty situation, not us. While they could try and put us in a shitty situation, it would likely impact gameplay in a negative manner and just result in an annoyance, much more effective I think to try and have us care about the other "people" effected by the events. But instead of reminding me of the shit that just went down, the game is instead reminding me that I'm awesome and untouchable, or just making me laugh at satire which would probably work (seriously Serendipidy, do that, no one would know the difference). That's sending out the complete wrong message IMO.

That said I enjoyed the finale, just not for the right reasons I think... Small things like "the [carriage] you rode in on" at the end got me far more than the actual plot. Really enjoyed the fight cutscenes (Raubahn owned the music) and I have hand it to SE for having the balls to off Nanamo, though I'm a tad peeved they didn't "fix" the situation with something like the Culinarian quest... Much like 1.0s original main quest, I think Class quests could do with being put in their own little Echo timeline now, they have the perfect tool to do away with inconsistencies like this, but they're not using it... Mayhaps in Heavensward... Heck that actually could have been used to make more of the NPCs in the game less trusting of us than they are without creating an inconvenience for the players... Talk to Guild NPC having finished their quests? "HOW COULD YOU?!!?". Talk to Guild NPC for the first time having finished the main scenario? Clearly marked Echo transition and things act like normal, perhaps with a few minor tweaks (/sad emote when looking at Nanamo during the Culinarian quest). Really do think there is a lot they could have done to improve the finale, guess I'll just hope for better in Heavensward.

[axemtitanium]

I think we've forgotten what OP actually said in all this discussion. Reposted for your edification:

Please, never include the PC in any cutscene that involves negative things happening

OP is asking the writers to throw out every remotely interesting tool in their toolbox and instead write a pleasant fluff fanfic where the player character never suffers any hardship on their way to victory. That's not a hero's journey; that's shooting fish in a barrel and it's stupid.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

I am starting to think the OP was trying to make a joke but everyone else played it straight.