PLD any better than WAR?

[Brill_]

Imo, SE did a great job capturing their themes.

If I were to min max and everyone was doing their job very well I might start to lean more towards Warrior, but /imo/ running DF as Paladin feels like playing Sam right before Frodo tries to rage quit.

This. Warrior is way more fun to play. I find paladin is a lot more forgiving when I am not in the perfect group.

[graudon]

They are both doing their job fine with tanking and also debuffs. Its all about play style and the raid needs. U can achive end game content with both tanks but raid strategy changes in every coil so having them both is the best

Pala is more like a turtle with more deffensive options in the other hand warrior has more aggresive abilities and sustained health pool. When it comes to tanking pala is easier in some cases but also there are some times that warrior is better (dunno if this is a answer for u )

[Izsha]

No, i didn't ignore bulwark. I've talked about it a few times now. And your block rate is is really closer to 30%. The rate/10+10 is an easy estimate. The actual number is 1 block is 0.00086. Or 10=0.86% instead of 1%. No tower or kite shield has a 100% black rate under bulwark so if that is what you are depending on for a 1 hit phy tank buster you are gambling with a wipe. It's a great cd for multi hits, or general mitigation for, say, adds. But for single hit moves it is a last resort (let alone magic attakcs). My post was explicitly about big tank busters and effective hp, so yes I discounted bulwark and made a note about it to show I didn't forget it. It's situational. Raven claw? Great(phy multi hit). Akh morn? Useless (magic).

I've said repeatedly that pld has superior mitigation for steady incoming damage due to their shield (shiva ex being the best example. No real tank busters just high fast auto attacks) while wars excel at predictable, frequent tank busters via IB because it's a rampart on a 20 sec CD.

As for pld pulling threat as off tank, it's not a problem if the or is a nin for slashing allowing the war to path butcher butchers rotation, or its weak content and war can eye butch butch. No its not possible to keep threat lead on equal geared pld if the war is trying to do all 3 combos. Put your nin to work :]

Pld doing 123 in sword oath generates 727 pot per gcd in threat.
War doing path butch butch and 1 IB per cycle in defiance generates 1002 enmity per gcd. (955 if using fracture).

Just on the face of it equally geared tanks the war has a substantial 38% enmity lead (thanks maim!). 150%ish stronger auto attacks don't make up for 120% maimed auto attacks under defiance. Circle of scorn isn't going to kill that nearly 40% enmity lead on war. Unchained+zerk have similar boost as fight of flight over time, but war can adjust combo to squeeze in an extra butchers instead of path while that's up to gain an enmity edge when factoring atk buffs.

A full vit war will struggle vs full str pld ot. But that's why I said similarly geared. War in combination melded/slaying can fend off a str pld OT pretty handily and keep path up about 80 to 90% of the time and let the nin maintain slashing. It works pretty well, just be cautious immediately after a tank swap and its all gravy (dat crit rng after tank swaps is always fun lol).

tldr: similarly geared and skilled wars can mt vs str sword oath pld without loosing threat. Trouble is war in all these scenarios requires a bit more finesse to manage, and Joe schmoe in DF probably isn't pulling it off. But that doesn't mean the class isn't capable of all these things.

[Ashkendor]

As for pld pulling threat as off tank, it's not a problem if the or is a nin for slashing allowing the war to path butcher butchers rotation, or its weak content and war can eye butch butch. No its not possible to keep threat lead on equal geared pld if the war is trying to do all 3 combos. Put your nin to work :]

Ehhhh. It seems counterproductive to make the ninja take a DPS loss so the PLD can go ham as OT.

Dancing Edge is only 260 potency. Compare that to Aeolian Edge at 320.

Hopefully this is addressed in the expansion with a non-enmity combo for paladin. ^^

[Zykor]

It's a great cd for multi hits, or general mitigation for, say, adds. But for single hit moves it is a last resort (let alone magic attakcs).

Yeah bulwark has missed sometimes, but never once has it ever caused a wipe since I usually couple it with rampart (the only exception with a multi-hit combo, ie t9's claws - which is not a tank buster).

Ahk Morn is the first of its kind by being magical, and the only place bulwark isn't useful (SE makes tank busters be physical for a reason). The way I see it, the only time warrior excels at tank busters is when the hits come far faster than the CD relief, and the only fight I can think of that does that is possibly T5's death sentence - every other tank buster is spread out that a competent paladin will never run out. Not to mention that paladins can usually throw up a stoneskin before a tank buster hits as well.

[Izsha]

Bulwark being paired with rampart proves my point. It's not a stand alone cooldown for single hits. You paired it with rampart for the very reason that it isn't 100% reliable ad when it fails the only reason you don't die is because you have rampart up with it.

As for magic damage, it's not exactly rare. Akh morn, triple flare breaths, brand swaps (if you have tanks do it), ALL of ramuh, every attack from Levis head (even auto attacks are magic). I'm sure there's other stuff out there. All this content was new and hard at some point and killed tanks, and I'm sure it's not the last well see of it.

Those 2 reasons is why I always have a big asterisk next to bulwark. It's a great ability, but depending on the situation it scales anywhere from most epic move next to hallowed to utterly useless. It's just a very situational ability. That doesn't make it bad, but it does mean it needs context.

[Zykor]

Bulwark being paired with rampart proves my point. It's not a stand alone cooldown for single hits. You paired it with rampart for the very reason that it isn't 100% reliable ad when it fails the only reason you don't die is because you have rampart up with it.

As for magic damage, it's not exactly rare...

That is not why I paired bulwark with rampart, instead it was because rampart would be up again anyway by time a third tank buster lands, so might as well take less damage since it is there (similar to the use of foresight atm). In the last few weeks of final coil, bulwark has not missed one tank buster. While it is possible that it can miss, the likelihood of it actually happening is low. Bulwark should be included when calculating normal tank busting mitigation.

For mag dmg, I was referring to magic tank busters, not regular attacks. If we are honest, only Ahk Morn can fit that category.

[myahele]

it seems like PLD will get another defensive cooldown while WARs have that attacking one

[Mishini_Dracoto]

Just so you know, I've quit my plans for endgaming for now and decided to switch to PLD instead and level that to 50 as well.

Is PLD better or worse at tanking than WAR? It will be my first time tanking with a sword and shield.

I would say it's easier, but not better. Not unless there'sw a one-shot mechanic that you can easily time Hallowed Ground for. In which case, a WAR using Holmgang would be at a strong disadvantage. (being reduced to 1 hp in the same process. . . .)

[aerialrave]

I am of the personal opinion that Paladin beats out Warrior in almost every way.
But this is just an opinion.

The fact remains that Warriors can clear any content that a Paladin can without making it significantly harder either.
I think most people play Warriors "for the look" or the "fun factor" anyway.

If you are a beginner (or lacking skill-wise) have a look at these, they are quite informative but should be common knowledge to any decent tank:
http://i.imgur.com/smNx1ZX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/PEnLMF9.jpg
(taken from Reddit)