Relationship between Bahamut and Midgardsomr?

[StarDrake]

If we go by the "patch chronology" conceit which will need to be played in order for Alisaie or Nero to show up again in the Main Scenario (if their respective raids must stay optional), then there's actually nothing preventing Bahamut from being summoned again at some point in Heavensward or the upcoming patch cycle.

Let's just let that sink in.

Frankly, I've been expecting this one since at least 2.2 when we got the explanation of Final Fantasy metaphysics and the Lifestream. To wit:

"So we're eventually going to take out Bahamut for good this patch cycle. We can be sure of that. This will return him to the Lifestream.

Where he can be summoned again.

Isn't this a bad idea, on some level?"

Now who'd summon him, that's another question...

[Fenral]

"Isn't this a bad idea, on some level?"

Right?

With enough "belief" (not to be confused with "believers") and a sufficient quantity of aether, anyone can summon a Primal. Even Gilgamesh.

Even with the Meracydians, Bahamut's primary worshipers, gone, if some other sufficiently devout congregation were to, say, attempt to call together any and all of Midgardsormr's seven progeny for one final assault on their ancient enemy, those unable to answer the call directly could still be made manifest as Primals if an adequate toll were to be paid. This would actually not be so different from the summoning of Good King Moggle Mog XII, but probably not nearly as fluffy and adorable.

All this is just from what we know of Primal summonings, but supposedly the rules are going to change big time come Heavensward. Won't that be fun.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Right?

With enough "belief" (not to be confused with "believers") and a sufficient quantity of aether, anyone can summon a Primal. Even Gilgamesh.


All this is just from what we know of Primal summonings, but supposedly the rules are going to change big time come Heavensward. Won't that be fun.

So the Dravanians summon the seven Celestial Dragons (Both dead and alive) to strike out against Ishgaurd. Ishgusrd's church prays REALLY hard for salvation and their "Legendary Knights of Old" come forth to save them. Cue Knights of The Round primal battle.

[Grayve]

So the Dravanians summon the seven Celestial Dragons (Both dead and alive) to strike out against Ishgaurd. Ishgusrd's church prays REALLY hard for salvation and their "Legendary Knights of Old" come forth to save them. Cue Knights of The Round primal battle.

Oh. Oh my. That'd be amazing.

Side note, I'd love to see Bahamut Zero from FF7 as well.

[Durthane]

So the Dravanians summon the seven Celestial Dragons (Both dead and alive) to strike out against Ishgaurd. Ishgusrd's church prays REALLY hard for salvation and their "Legendary Knights of Old" come forth to save them. Cue Knights of The Round primal battle.

Make this happen! Or make half of it the new Smn LB3... I think I'd have to start playing Smn for that alone XD.

[Cilia]

Make this happen! Or make half of it the new Smn LB3... I think I'd have to start playing Smn for that alone XD.

Nah, I'm hoping SMN Limit Break either briefly augs up the Egi into the full Primal or makes them use the Primal's signature move in its full splendor.

Hey, why not both?

[Durthane]

Nah, I'm hoping SMN Limit Break either briefly augs up the Egi into the full Primal or makes them use the Primal's signature move in its full splendor.

Hey, why not both?

Thats the more likely outcome. But what if... No I suppose a KOTR egi might get a bit to complicated. /sigh

Give me a moment while I gather the shards of my dashed hopes.

[LineageRazor]

Frankly, I've been expecting this one since at least 2.2 when we got the explanation of Final Fantasy metaphysics and the Lifestream. To wit:

"So we're eventually going to take out Bahamut for good this patch cycle. We can be sure of that. This will return him to the Lifestream.

Where he can be summoned again.

Isn't this a bad idea, on some level?"

Now who'd summon him, that's another question...

Remember that the strength of the primal upon summoning depends a lot on how much is invested in the summoning process. A few crystals, and you get level 20 Story Mode Ifrit. A crapton of crystals, and you get moderately dangerous Hard Mode Ifrit. A crapton of crystals and an elaborite Amal'jaa sacrifice, and you wind up with badass Extreme Mode Ifrit.

The Bahamut Primal we know is ridiculously powerful - but he was summoned through the effort of thousands of dragons. If Bahamut was returned to the aether, and resummoned, his newly summoned form would likely be FAR less powerful unless he was again summoned by thousands of dragons.

Nah, I'm hoping SMN Limit Break either briefly augs up the Egi into the full Primal or makes them use the Primal's signature move in its full splendor.

Hey, why not both?

We don't want a SMN LB that depends on the SMN having an Egi out. Most of the time they do, but do you really want to restrict when and where a SMN can LB, when no other class has such a restriction?

Personally, I'm hoping that SMN LB will call upon a random Primal, have that Primal briefly appear, use its super ability, and then vanish. This approach has several advantages:
- It has a lot of variety. Rather than the same thing every time, you never know what Primal you're going to get.
- It reuses resources. The devs won't have to create any new animations or graphics - they're all there already.
- It hearkens back to the "classic" SMNs of old. The appear-attack-vanish summons are what Summoner used to be all about.

They'd need to abbreviate some of the Primals' attacks, of course. Shiva, for instance, wouldn't be able to her little flyaround, freeze the enemies, and so on. She'd just appear, do a quick freeze, and then leave. Leviathan wouldn't swim as long either.

[Kaiser-Ace]

The Bahamut Primal we know is ridiculously powerful - but he was summoned through the effort of thousands of dragons. If Bahamut was returned to the aether, and resummoned, his newly summoned form would likely be FAR less powerful unless he was again summoned by thousands of dragons.

<Looks at the Dravanian Hoard> Yea we're gonna need a bigger Dragon Killer. <Starts preparing for round two with the Dreadwyrm King>

[Nyalia]

Make this happen! Or make half of it the new Smn LB3... I think I'd have to start playing Smn for that alone XD.

Please no! I don't want to have to put my controller down and go find something else to do for 10 minutes while the KOTR animation plays! I remember having to keep a book around for when I W-Summoned KOTR in FF7.

Regarding Bahamut, killing the Primal in Coil only allows it to be summoned again, just like the other Primals we "kill." There's no such thing as "killing" one for good (I mean, I guess you could wipe out everyone who has ever heard of them and destroy all history books, but that's a bit much!). Also, "Bahamut Prime" was (relatively speaking) rather weak when you get to T13. Sure, there were plenty of worshipers praying to Bahamut still "alive" to shape the aether, but Dalamud didn't have all that much aether to work with yet. It had no access to crystallized aether and could only use what it could siphon directly from the land (and from Phoenix, I guess). So, if the Dravnarians decide to gather a bunch of crystals and summon a new instance of Bahamut, it's entirely possible that the Bahamut they summon will be stronger than the one you fight in T13.