Answers About the Archons

[treuhavik]

Could it be possible that the Archons (our Scions) will somehow get the echo eventually?

It's possible, but the damage is done, they're already called Archons without the Echo. /pout

So is it too far-fetched to think that Archon Ahldbhar hosted the essence of Rhalgr himself?

No, not at all. But, would it really be Rhalgr? Or would it just be some lightning primal? Or is it a super-special lightning technique learned by a thaumaturge and attributed to a god of lightning?

[Anonymoose]

I think I've found my smoking gun on the neck tattoo!

You'll have to be the judge on this one; I can't rightly tell if I'm seeing this through the lens of my own theory, or whether my theory actually was pretty close and just needed this information to sand off the bad assumptions.

Here's the context: When you first meet Moenbryda, Y'shtola has an optional Small Talk that basically says, "I know she's different, but she's the best of the best. She wouldn't have the tattoo, otherwise." Each language went a very different route of communicating this idea, and I think that when you put them all together you get the truth. Here are all of the lines, and my interpretations of each.

As always, my translations are amateur - do correct me if you can do better.

Only those with proven expertise receive the mark─as our newcomer has. Pay no heed to her manner.

The mark is official and bestowed; it's specifically Sharlayan, and it has cultural meaning.

シャーレアンでは、何らかの分野で秀でていないと、「賢人」の称号を名乗ることはできないわ。そして、彼女もまた「賢人」の証を身に刻む者よ。
In Sharlayan, if you do not excel in a specific field, you cannot claim the title of "sage." She has engraved the proof of "sage" into her flesh.

In Sharlayan, achieving a certain degree of excellence in a focused field of study grants one permission to claim the title, "Sage." You can exhibit proof of this status by bearing the mark.

La “marque des sages” n'est attribuée qu'aux personnes dont les connaissances dans un domaine spécifique ont été rrreconnues par l'ensemble de la communauté scientifique sharlayanaise. La porter est un honneur qui n'appartient qu'à l'élite de nos savants.
The "mark of the sages" is attributed to persons whose knowledge in a given field has been recognized by the Sharlayan scientific community. To bear it is an honor that belongs to the most elite of our scholars.

The tattoo as a mark of status is recognized by the Sharlayan academic world at large.

Ich will nicht sagen, dass wir Exegeten besser wären als die übrigen Gelehrten Sharlayans, aber fest steht, dass wir uns nach Kräften um Exzellenz bemüht haben. Jeder von uns hat sein Spezialgebiet. Das erlaubt uns, große Wissensgebiete abzudecken und dennoch gründlich zu forschen.
I don't want to say that we exegetes are better than the other Sharlayan scholars, but there is no doubt that we have done our best to achieve excellence. Every one of us has a specialty. This allows us to cover large areas of knowledge, yet still research them thoroughly.

Many people can be given the title "sage," yet they may study very different fields. Exegesis is an analytical interpretation or explanation of a text, especially a religious one. "The Exegetes" is a title you might give the Circle of Knowing, considering that one of their first-and-foremost foci was to study and interpret the Divine Chronicles of Mezaya Thousand Eyes.

Therefore...

The theoretical "larger" group than the Circle of Knowing is real. The tattoo is symbolic of a very large and diverse Sharlayan group - the sages - who are academically recognized throughout the nation as the best of the best in some accepted field.

The Circle of Knowing were counted among their number for their study and interpretation of the Divine Chronicles, learning about the past Astral and Umbral eras to properly understand the text and see the present within the proper frame. Louisoix went rogue, deciding that not only did he want to understand the previous verses in the proper context, but use this knowledge to predict the Seventh Cycle of the Eras and intervene, forestalling the coming Calamity (theorized to herald Oblivion and the reign of Darkness) for however long it took to beat it.

Moenbryda was a disciple of Louisoix, but seems to have been given the title of sage for her research into aetherial sciences, not the Divine Chronicles. When Louisoix formed the Circle of Knowing and came to Eorzea, it filled her with doubt that haunted her especially after his death up until the moment she sacrificed herself to destroy Nabriales.

Rammbroes was of the Circle of Knowing as a sage studying the diffusion of knowledge itself, eventually settling into Allagan knowledge and becoming the leader of the Sons of Saint Coinach dig in Mor Dhona.

G'raha is a member of the Students of Baldesion, a group of scholars with their hands in everything esoteric, arcane, forbidden, and forgotten.

Let's put it in real world terms.

The tattoo means you've obtained a doctoral level excellence if your field.

• Circle of Knowing: Ph.D in Theology
• Moenbryda: Ph.D in Aetheriology (Physics)
• Rammbroes: Ph.D in Anthropogeology (Anthropology)
• G'raha Tia: Ph.D in History

How'd I do? Did I figure it out?

[Fenral]

How'd I do? Did I figure it out?

That's about what I suspected, actually, but I hadn't found anything in-game to cement it. Nice work. I try to catch everyone's small talk, but there's no way to go back and read through it again, so I assumed they just hadn't dropped that line yet.

My above points on G'raha still stand, unfortunately. He was sent from Val strictly to "observe" the expedition and abide by the decisions made by Cid and Ramnbroes: you'll note he's the one character in that story who very specifically avoids making any input in favor of one direction or another ("save it" or "destroy it")... only to hijack the entire operation at the last minute and remove both the tower and himself from the present flow of time. I understand the story is supposed to be about him discovering that he, too, can take an active role in history, but the afterlife metaphor in the execution still makes me rather uncomfortable.

With as little as we got from him directly, we can only speculate on his precise motivations, but the extra info I got from the Japanese script suggested he simply thought that it was the only way he could be of any use to anyone ever, which from most perspectives is actually quite tragic. Fortunately, the point of Desch as a character in FF3 was that everyone has more than one role to play, but suffice to say I'll be kicking Cid in the head until the tower opens again.

[Allyrion]

That's about what I suspected, actually, but I hadn't found anything in-game to cement it. Nice work. I try to catch everyone's small talk, but there's no way to go back and read through it again, so I assumed they just hadn't dropped that line yet.

My above points on G'raha still stand, unfortunately. He was sent from Val strictly to "observe" the expedition and abide by the decisions made by Cid and Ramnbroes: you'll note he's the one character in that story who very specifically avoids making any input in favor of one direction or another ("save it" or "destroy it")... only to hijack the entire operation at the last minute and remove both the tower and himself from the present flow of time.

With as little as we got from him directly, we can only speculate on his precise motivations, but the extra info I got from the Japanese script suggested he simply thought that it was the only way he could be of any use to anyone ever, which from most perspectives is actually quite tragic. Suffice to say I'll be kicking Cid in the head for most of the expansion.

I don't see how it's tragic that he was able to fulfill discover and fulfill his family line's destiny, that was passed down in riddles for many generations.
These kind of sacrifices are meant to be bitter-sweet but he tapped into a wish passed down from not only from his heritage but the Allagan civilization as a whole.
Few could dream of touching something so great and grand, or having nearly as much meaning to their lives.

From what I could gather, he grew up knowing he had a greater destiny.
It wasn't until he found the truth about the Allagans and the Cyrstal Tower that he became fully realized.

[Fenral]

Few could dream of touching something so great and grand, or having nearly as much meaning to their lives.

I actually just updated my post, but what got me about that logic is the entirely unspoken notion that he somehow would have been lesser as a person for not taking the absolute furthest irretrievable extreme upon uncovering the truth. Naturally, aside from a brief tinge of regret, the entire scene is written so that that idea of what would happen if he chose not to sacrifice himself simply isn't allowed to come into play, but it's a rather thin patch of ice they were standing on, and I think they knew that. If and when the tower does come back into play, somehow, he will need to be either a completely unrealistic heroic figure, or we can expect to be crying a lot. I'm also aware that I hold a minority opinion on this, so we don't need to derail this thread any further.

[Belhi]

This makes me wonder, what was Yda's field of expertise suppose to be? Thancred I could make a few guesses at but Yda leaves me completely in the dark. She doesn't strike me as the sciency type. Maybe she has a knack for ancient dialects or something.

[Fenral]

We... know nothing about her, or any of them, really. Urianger is obvious, Y'shtola and Papalymo easy enough to guess, but Thancred's a low-Intelligence high-Wisdom type, if you pardon the D&D terminology. Yda, though... she's not classically smart from what we've seen, but she can stop bullets with her fists, could probably give Godbert a run for his money physically (and that's a lot of money), and nobody but Y'shtola has ever questioned her as an asset to the team.

If I had to guess, her area of expertise could be the underlying science behind, for example, the discipline of the Fists of Rhalgr. In other words, using aether to enhance one's own physical attributes. It may be that she's simply a prodigy, and even though it's the only thing she's good at, she's good enough at it to have earned her mark.

[Samcaesar]

This makes me wonder, what was Yda's field of expertise suppose to be? Thancred I could make a few guesses at but Yda leaves me completely in the dark. She doesn't strike me as the sciency type. Maybe she has a knack for ancient dialects or something.

Maybe she's a scholar of martial arts, like studying forms and history of the various martial art groups? It'd make sense given her class and some groups in the world like the Fist of Rhalgr.

[Enkidoh]

Since they first appeared in Gridania at the start of 1.0 Yda seemed to just appear to be Papalymo's 'bodyguard' of sorts, as she indeed comes across as something of a scatterbrain (her first comments upon jumping off an airship in the Black Shroud is she thought she was dead and even calls the player a 'psychopomp') - although she does have moments of surprising clarity, much to Papalymo's chagrin. There was also at least one incident in 1.0 where she seemed to show some kind of aetheric sensitivity, accurately perceiving a shift in aetheric currents (which preceded a treant appearing). Not to mention the two of them managed to capture Dunstan, who not even the best Wood Wailers or God's Quiver could find or subdue.

And lets face it, in the showdown between Gaius and the Circle in Mor Dhona in 1.0, she was the only one of the Archons to actually land a hit on the Legatus, showing that her talents lie elsewhere besides mere study. Which probably accounts for the reason why two Archons were sent to Gridania originallt by Sharalyan instead of just one - Yda is the 'brawn' where as Papalymo is the 'brains', which requires them to work together.

This was clearly shown in the 2.55 story when

Papalymo offered to stay behind to slow down the pursuing Brass Blades and Crystal Braves to allow the player, Minfilia, Thancred and Y'shtola to escape, Yda unhesitatingly remained by his side to help him, not willing to let him sacrifice himself without her there too. I must admit I tore up at that scene, being Gridanian aligned in both 1.0 and ARR and having known them since the very beginning of my journey in FFXIV it was like saying goodbye to close friends. ).

But I digress...

[Rannie]

This was clearly shown in the 2.55 story when

Papalymo offered to stay behind to slow down the pursuing Brass Blades and Crystal Braves to allow the player, Minfilia, Thancred and Y'shtola to escape, Yda unhesitatingly remained by his side to help him, not willing to let him sacrifice himself without her there too. I must admit I tore up at that scene, being Gridanian aligned in both 1.0 and ARR and having known them since the very beginning of my journey in FFXIV it was like saying goodbye to close friends. ).

But I digress...

Err it was the other way around yda said she would stay and let the rest escape then Papalymo spoke up to say he would stay with her then she smiled. At least that was the gist in English if the other languages changed it up I don't know.