General Game Performance - Anyone Else Feel The Way I Do?

[Rydin]

I'd like to see your specs too. I run the game buttery smooth even with framerate drops to the 30s or 40s but I heard someone say that an SSD is why, and I have FFXIV installed on one.

Also i can almost guarentee that the loading lag is because of the physical speed of HDDs, the best option to lower loading lag is to invest in a SSD to install FFXIV on, I have heard that this can reduce loading lag alot, it could be the optimisation of the game or it could just be that so much information needs to be loaded at once.

But if the stuttering and loading lag annoys you then the only thing you can do is get a SSD, put up with it until its fixed or quit playing, your only options atm.

Not always the case.... I've run the game on the same exact system... other than changing hard drives... and I can tell you... SSD isn't the miracle cure....

With something as multifaceted as an MMORPG... there are tons of places along the way that could serve as a bottleneck....

On a core 2 duo with an 8800gtx... You could have the fastest OCZ PCIe SLC SSD on the market and not run the game properly....
BUT...
If you had an I7 990x and a Radeon HD 6970 and a regular 7200rpm HDD... you'd run the game more than adequately on very high settings....

What does that tell us?
Storage medium is the least of your worries....
Even the networking adapter, ISP and bandwidth make more of a difference than HDD

How can you just diagnose that he needs an SSD without asking what type of Internet connection he is using...
Is it wireless?
Do you share internet with others?
Is someone that you share internet with downloading a lot?
Are YOU downloading a lot?
Is there ANYTHING on your computer, running in the background that may be connecting to the internet, or heavily taxing your hard drive?
What kind of hard drive do you have now?
Do you know the RPM and cache size of it?
Is it more than half full?

I can guarantee you, that:
1. A Western Digital caviar black SATAIII 7200RPM 64MB cache
2. A western Digital Velociraptor SATAIII 10000RPM 32MB cache
and 3. OCZ Vertex 3 SATAIII MLC

You wont notice a performance increase with any of these (Provided the HDD's aren't full)

Now if you have an old 5400rpm 8mb cache drive from 2002... or an eco friendly green drive (FV#K THE PLANET).... then go to an SSD... then yea.. it will look like the SSD works miracles... but going from that old drive to a modern high performance HDD will also solve the problem

Seriously... you can run the game with high end everything else, but a mid range HDD and get no problems at all.... no stuttering... no performance decrease...
and if you are using an old outdated HDD... you're better off getting a TB or higher Caviar Black drive and spending a lot less for a lot more HDD space

[Coldfire]

Rydin you don't seem to get the point. Neither did you seem to understand the issue we are talking about. There definately is a huge performance increase on highend/midrange systems when adding a fast SSD for this game.

[Rydin]

Rydin you don't seem to get the point. Neither did you seem to understand the issue we are talking about. There definately is a huge performance increase on highend/midrange systems when adding a fast SSD for this game.

I get the point.... I just dont think so....

Take an I7 990x and a Radeon 6970 with a western digital caviar black hard drive and then with an SSD and you will see very little difference...
I'm not just sure about that statement.. I KNOW that statement is true... I've done it....
You will see a little less loading at start up and between zones.... thats it...

[Coldfire]

We are not talking about loading times between zones or average fps. We are talking about the stuttering in town or other areas with lots of PC/NPC. And that stuttering can only be reduced with a faster HDD.

[Delsus]

Not always the case.... I've run the game on the same exact system... other than changing hard drives... and I can tell you... SSD isn't the miracle cure....

With something as multifaceted as an MMORPG... there are tons of places along the way that could serve as a bottleneck....

On a core 2 duo with an 8800gtx... You could have the fastest OCZ PCIe SLC SSD on the market and not run the game properly....
BUT...
If you had an I7 990x and a Radeon HD 6970 and a regular 7200rpm HDD... you'd run the game more than adequately on very high settings....

What does that tell us?
Storage medium is the least of your worries....
Even the networking adapter, ISP and bandwidth make more of a difference than HDD

How can you just diagnose that he needs an SSD without asking what type of Internet connection he is using...
Is it wireless?
Do you share internet with others?
Is someone that you share internet with downloading a lot?
Are YOU downloading a lot?
Is there ANYTHING on your computer, running in the background that may be connecting to the internet, or heavily taxing your hard drive?
What kind of hard drive do you have now?
Do you know the RPM and cache size of it?
Is it more than half full?

I can guarantee you, that:
1. A Western Digital caviar black SATAIII 7200RPM 64MB cache
2. A western Digital Velociraptor SATAIII 10000RPM 32MB cache
and 3. OCZ Vertex 3 SATAIII MLC

You wont notice a performance increase with any of these (Provided the HDD's aren't full)

Now if you have an old 5400rpm 8mb cache drive from 2002... or an eco friendly green drive (FV#K THE PLANET).... then go to an SSD... then yea.. it will look like the SSD works miracles... but going from that old drive to a modern high performance HDD will also solve the problem

Seriously... you can run the game with high end everything else, but a mid range HDD and get no problems at all.... no stuttering... no performance decrease...
and if you are using an old outdated HDD... you're better off getting a TB or higher Caviar Black drive and spending a lot less for a lot more HDD space

Its quite simple, he is talking about loading lag, which is the long times it takes to load things like initialy starting the game and character models, which are stored on the client's PC, when the game starts it has to load the huge zones from the HDD, and even the character models it just gets the information for the PC to build the models for example if there is a hyur midlander male with face 2, large body size, a scar on the left eye, brown hair 1 etc etc, this is what the client recives from the server, then the client builds all character models onscreen using that information.

Because of this loading from even a 7200RPM HDD takes time because of the physical limitations of a HDD which when the cost of SSDs come down HDD will be obsolete, yes the client could do with optimising which I will not deny, but loading lag is either HDD read speed, CPU clock speed because or graphics card rendering speed.

Most of what you mentioned are networking problems, but if you look at the network indicator ingame, you will notice not much bandwidth is used by the game, take a character model that usually only takes about 5Mb to download because its the client that draws them.

Btw, if a HDD is almost full the loading lag isnt affected that much, the main problem there could be from a full HDD is fragmented data, because the CPU knows where information related to programs should be even with a full HDD, the CPU knows where all FFXIV data should be when you open the patcher, because the programs are connected.

You are just somone that thinks they know everything, people have taken my advice on a SSD before now and have seen large loading lag reductions, believe me when I have the money I will be getting a SSD when I have the money, even if it is just a small one to put windows and FFXIV on, which is all you need.

My profession makes me need to know how to diagnose problems based on little information, and because the op posted about loading lag, and said they have a decent PC, it is the most logical fix to invest in a SSD because the game has to load so much information from the HDD on the fly, if the op has a SSD I would then suggest a CPU upgrade because of the need for multitasking to play this game.

Exactly my point.. High End CPU, Mid-high end GPU... good amount of RAM....
regular old HDD....
I'm telling you... the HDD is not the bottle neck for most systems like the industry would have you believe
And honestly.. if someone got an SSD... I'd say you'd benefit more putting just your OS on it and leaving everything else on an HDD

Also here you mention 6GB as a good amount of RAM which is true but unless you run graphics design software of virtual machines, or other RAM intensive software you dont need it, RAM only slows a system down if you are topping it out by running multiple programs at once for example I have 8GB of RAM in the laptop I play FFXIV on when the system is running just firefox skype and background programs I am using 1.62GB of it therefore I will not notice a slowdown just running FFXIV on top of those, however with 2GB of RAM I would notice a slowdown because the system would be page filing so my system does not crash.

The only way I top out my RAM is when I am running 5-6 virtual machines which I do.

If you want to see the problem page filing has, top out your RAM, and you will notice the symptoms of topped out RAM, 3GB+ RAM you will not notice a slowdown, and it will definatly not increase loading times, and if you have any less than 3GB RAM you should really upgrade.

[Rydin]

Most of what you mentioned are networking problems, but if you look at the network indicator ingame, you will notice not much bandwidth is used by the game, take a character model that usually only takes about 5Mb to download because its the client that draws them.

yes... but if you're sharing internet on say a 10mbit connection...
and Another computer is using a bit torrent client... the download could be using 100% of the bandwidth
Also bad ping is bad ping... and if you've got like a 1 second ping to the servers.... you can kiss any type of lag free gameplay goodbye

Btw, if a HDD is almost full the loading lag isnt affected that much, the main problem there could be from a full HDD is fragmented data, because the CPU knows where information related to programs should be even with a full HDD, the CPU knows where all FFXIV data should be when you open the patcher, because the programs are connected.

absolutely not true.... the innermost sectors of an HDD have as little as half the data rate of the outer sectors.. which get written to first....

You are just somone that thinks they know everything, people have taken my advice on a SSD before now and have seen large loading lag reductions, believe me when I have the money I will be getting a SSD when I have the money, even if it is just a small one to put windows and FFXIV on, which is all you need.

Yes... when you start the game... it will load faster with an SSD... I'm not denying that....
but faster initial load =/= better performance....
I guess it can be viewed as a performance increase.... in a manner of speaking....

My profession makes me need to know how to diagnose problems based on little information, and because the op posted about loading lag, and said they have a decent PC, it is the most logical fix to invest in a SSD because the game has to load so much information from the HDD on the fly, if the op has a SSD I would then suggest a CPU upgrade because of the need for multitasking to play this game.

In my profession... I create music... and I've professionally made a few Virtual instruments and sample libraries... in which case, bit rates, data rates and hard drive speeds are paramount in what I do
I disagree with this.... if you have a very old HDD... you can get a modern caviar black AND a CPU for the price of a usable SSD... making it the better upgrade path....

Also here you mention 6GB as a good amount of RAM which is true but unless you run graphics design software of virtual machines, or other RAM intensive software you dont need it, RAM only slows a system down if you are topping it out by running multiple programs at once for example I have 8GB of RAM in the laptop I play FFXIV on when the system is running just firefox skype and background programs I am using 1.62GB of it therefore I will not notice a slowdown just running FFXIV on top of those, however with 2GB of RAM I would notice a slowdown because the system would be page filing so my system does not crash.

This is actually true... go figure

The only way I top out my RAM is when I am running 5-6 virtual machines which I do.

I can use all 16GB of my machine with one song playing... and all of the virtual instruments that go with it.... there this one... called Vienna... I swear to you it is 500gb of orchestra samples.... purely hi sample rate audio... it's nuts... you running VMware? my buddy does tech work for the City of Miami and he absolutely hates VMware

If you want to see the problem page filing has, top out your RAM, and you will notice the symptoms of topped out RAM, 3GB+ RAM you will not notice a slowdown, and it will definatly not increase loading times, and if you have any less than 3GB RAM you should really upgrade.

I also agree... damn... I can't make a habit out of this...

At the end of the day... a gamer with high end CPU, GPU, and RAM and an ok HDD is going to see better performance than a gamer with an SSD and mid range CPU, GPU and RAM.... Even any one of those is more important than an SSD....(Ram size more so than actual speeds, which still matter though)

Take an I7 990x, 12GB of DDR3 2000MHz, an ATI Radeon HD 6990 and an Intel or OCZ SSD....
I give this to you... but then I say one (and only one) of the items has to be downgraded....
Either the CPU goes to a core 2 duo....
or the GPU goes to a GTX8800
or the RAM drops to 3gb
or the SSD drops to a 7200RPM 32MB cache drive...

which one do you choose?
point made

[Delsus]

yes... but if you're sharing internet on say a 10mbit connection...
and Another computer is using a bit torrent client... the download could be using 100% of the bandwidth
Also bad ping is bad ping... and if you've got like a 1 second ping to the servers.... you can kiss any type of lag free gameplay goodbye


absolutely not true.... the innermost sectors of an HDD have as little as half the data rate of the outer sectors.. which get written to first....



Yes... when you start the game... it will load faster with an SSD... I'm not denying that....
but faster initial load =/= better performance....
I guess it can be viewed as a performance increase.... in a manner of speaking....



In my profession... I create music... and I've professionally made a few Virtual instruments and sample libraries... in which case, bit rates, data rates and hard drive speeds are paramount in what I do
I disagree with this.... if you have a very old HDD... you can get a modern caviar black AND a CPU for the price of a usable SSD... making it the better upgrade path....



This is actually true... go figure



I can use all 16GB of my machine with one song playing... and all of the virtual instruments that go with it.... there this one... called Vienna... I swear to you it is 500gb of orchestra samples.... purely hi sample rate audio... it's nuts... you running VMware? my buddy does tech work for the City of Miami and he absolutely hates VMware



I also agree... damn... I can't make a habit out of this...

At the end of the day... a gamer with high end CPU, GPU, and RAM and an ok HDD is going to see better performance than a gamer with an SSD and mid range CPU, GPU and RAM.... Even any one of those is more important than an SSD....(Ram size more so than actual speeds, which still matter though)

Take an I7 990x, 12GB of DDR3 2000MHz, an ATI Radeon HD 6990 and an Intel or OCZ SSD....
I give this to you... but then I say one (and only one) of the items has to be downgraded....
Either the CPU goes to a core 2 duo....
or the GPU goes to a GTX8800
or the RAM drops to 3gb
or the SSD drops to a 7200RPM 32MB cache drive...

which one do you choose?
point made

Yes there is the problem with people downloading, slowing your internet connection down, but I can talk on skype while playing FFXIV and not get a noticable lag increase

And its actually the inner sectors that get written to first, and because the inner sectors are smaller it takes slightly less time for the head to get to the right sectors, but not much more.

We are talking about loading in general not performance character model loading, zoning after a tele etc all need loading, so a SSD will make all those load faster, it takes a very small amount of data to be downloaded for character models, but it needs to load a mass from the HDD, which will be faster with a SSD loading lag =/= general framerate problems.

I can imagine you would use alot of RAM using that software, but the average user only needs 4GB of RAM to run what they usually do.

As for your last comment I would drop the 12GB RAM its just not needed.

[User201109011315]

It's weird because when I run Fraps it says I get 45-60 FPS but when I rotate my camera or run around it seems really stuttery sometimes.

[tymora]

2) The game's default texture size is so large that it eats up the texture memory on a video card

Varies according to your screen resolution. At 1440x900, it doesn't ever exceed 600Mb VRAM. You can tweak this by changing the rendering settings.

And yeah, get a SSD and put FFXIV on it. I learned that from FFXI.

[KaiKatzchen]

Hello, I don't post often here but I just wanted to throw up a thread and get the opinion and experiences of others on game performance.

Whenever I am playing FFXIV I feel, hear, and see the effects of my computer being strained to its maximum usage. Live streaming music is affected and lagged out as an example. My computer is definitely able to run the top games at the best or just below best settings, I built it this year and spent around 1200 dollars getting the hardware together.

I ALWAYS run into many different types of video lag in the game, they seem to be coming from the game loading other players, or objects in more cluttered areas, like Ul'Dah. However, its not a small amount that happens only when I enter the city.. it happens ALL THE TIME in the city, and shows up in other areas of the world as well where I am simply just running around exploring or fighting stupid repeated mobs (i digress).

So whats the deal? I know to expect a few troll posts of "your comp sucks" but I can assure you that isn't the problem. I noticed a very popular and surprised thread discussing the issue of character pathing being bugged and super sub par, but I think this is another subject that needs to be addressed as well. Is there some way SE can work on general lag spikes in towns, draw distance, and simple things like that which effect game play on all levels?

I hate forcing myself to play, and then forcing myself to ignore the giant lag spikes and super low draw distances.

Please feel free to comment and tell me about your thoughts on this issue! I would love to console in others' similar pains or at least find a false sense of hope in their fanboyism =]

thanks
-LM

I may get lag now and then, which is mostly in the forum of people taking a minute to pop up in crowded areas... other than that I'm afraid I don't have the issues you speak of.

Good luck getting it figured out though, no one should have to suffer with lag!!