Collision detection: Envirnoment and Monsters

[Soukyuu]

So, I guess the [dev1029]-tag is more about improving the collision detection with the environment, e.g. rocks, so that we won't get stuck on insignificant height differences etc. While this is an important part of collision detection, there is another type which interests me more: collision detection with monsters.

While I understand why you decided to remove the collision detection with other players, removing it for player-monster relationship is imho suboptimal.

Why not leave the collision detection in the game, but only for player vs enemy scenario? Especially if it's done right, i.e. a monster really not being able to pass through a player and vice versa. This would allow us to use more strategies like a tank blocking a monster from reaching the healer at the back.

[Onidemon]

It will just over complicate things and could become quite glitchy and annoying in some scenarios.

[Soukyuu]

I don't see anything overly complex nor glitchy with it, assuming it's done right.
Players are too accustomed to being able to pass through other players and/or monsters yet no one questions why we cannot pass through a wall for example. So how is that different?

[LuciBlack]

I would like to state my opinion on collision.

It is a necesary form of realism in any virtual world. SE had that idea to create a realistic fantasy environment. Yet seems to be lacking the idea in this game title.

If you fall do you not bleed? Like in a lot of other games, if you fall from high above your health gets depleted, not like health in this game matters, to much, until we have a more harsh death penalty. Jumping from a higher ground should consequence a negative result.
Same as the realism of running into someone. It is annoying when someone is in your way, but we cant change that, what we can change is going around the person. Which is finding a result to a complication. Thus strengthening your perception and ability to judge situations and building your skills to be a more intelligent individual.

When SE takes away simple annoying complications, its when we are being pampered too much and taking us out of the realism. We shouldnt be treated like children, unless your intent is to walk us through this entire game holding our hand. A virtual world should come with its struggles, and daily challenges just as real life. I believe it would help the game prosper more. I would hope that most people like to be challenged, and is why you are playing a game in the first place. A challenging game that is entertaining will bring what the company wants, more clients. If the client can easily concur any challenge, then it will soon become too dull for the pleasures, thus the person will seek to find more entertainment elsewhere.

I do think SE can and will create an amazing game with FFXIV, it will just take time.

[Hotohori]

I believe the removal of collision had to do with the fact that in FFXI, players could purposefully inhibit the movement of another player while in combat making them unable to move when necessary for positioning or evading certain abilities. Often the tactics of battle may involve sidestepping a certain skill, averting your gaze or moving away to exceed the range of a damaging skill for safety. With collision there may be multiple players interested in what you are fighting and choose to intentionally block your abilities to use safer tactics in hopes of your potential failure. Many players would use third-party tools and .dat modifications to take away character collision in FFXI.

So although as unrealistic as it may be to be able to walk through another player, it can be unfair to be unable to move properly when necessary due to simply having others around you whether they have ill intentions or not.

As for monster collision, with the party sizes of certain groups of enemies and the sheer size of some monsters, movement can be difficult at times. They even removed the /follow trait of monsters seeing as they may also inhibit a player when needing to sidestep or such. I would hate for losing a battle because I could not move with 10 goats stuck to me. Also if many players are intentionally able to block the free movement of a monster, terrain exploitations may become possible with narrow passageways.

[RabidSquirrel]

I would like to state my opinion on collision.

It is a necesary form of realism in any virtual world. SE had that idea to create a realistic fantasy environment. Yet seems to be lacking the idea in this game title.

If you fall do you not bleed? Like in a lot of other games, if you fall from high above your health gets depleted, not like health in this game matters, to much, until we have a more harsh death penalty. Jumping from a higher ground should consequence a negative result.
Same as the realism of running into someone. It is annoying when someone is in your way, but we cant change that, what we can change is going around the person. Which is finding a result to a complication. Thus strengthening your perception and ability to judge situations and building your skills to be a more intelligent individual.

When SE takes away simple annoying complications, its when we are being pampered too much and taking us out of the realism. We shouldnt be treated like children, unless your intent is to walk us through this entire game holding our hand. A virtual world should come with its struggles, and daily challenges just as real life. I believe it would help the game prosper more. I would hope that most people like to be challenged, and is why you are playing a game in the first place. A challenging game that is entertaining will bring what the company wants, more clients. If the client can easily concur any challenge, then it will soon become too dull for the pleasures, thus the person will seek to find more entertainment elsewhere.

I do think SE can and will create an amazing game with FFXIV, it will just take time.

Two spectrum in any gameplay device are "realistic to unrealistic", and "fun to frustrating." The fun to frustrating spectrum always comes first. I cannot stress this enough. Ask any game designer and they will tell you the same thing. A game is not real life, and that's what makes it fun. And because I see many people arguing in favor of realism, that's the reason behind my signature.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

having too realistic collision detections hinders more then anything. Like player to player, ppl go afk in the wrong places. doorways, hallways. Some do it on purpose and make a wall of players. DCUO is having this issue with protesters holding ppl hostage. Moster CD will suck worst. Imagine running from aggro and there are a group of goats in the way. And you trip up on them and die. This can be time consuming and frustrating.


Also how realistic is 12 hour days? Or the fact we don't age, or jump or swim or sleep or go to the bathroom.

>.>

If you want a realitic game play two worlds 2 and go shoot rhino with a bow and arrow. And cheeta and babboons. These are very realistic stuff also.

[Kilta_Firelotus]

to add since I cran outa room

THIS GAME WAS TO NOT BE AS TIME CONSUMING AS FFXI.
IT IS NOT HAND HOLDING TO BE LESS TIME CONSUMING TO DO STUFF.

[Zkieve]

the only reason i would leave monster collision on is to make the battle more action base (as in a collision system and less targeting system). otherwise i dont think this is even relevant at this point.

[Kenshi]

Finally someone says something about this garbage collision detection they have in this game. I personally love the fact that you no longer collide with other players, it has made the game much better. If you disagree with me then you obviously have never done a behest or played with a large group of people because if you had you would realize how often people bump into each other and how frustrating it is when you are trying to get to a mob and your character stops dead still every time you touch someone. The collision with the environment is hardly noticeable to me except when you want to run down the side of a small hill and the game tells you "no go around it we like time sucks". And is it just me or does the fact that the enemies can just walk right through you and hit you from behind for a critical attack or walk through you and one shot the mages drive you crazy??? That is the one of the things in this game I hate the most.