The Egi Conundrum: Heavensward and Beyond!

[Jranmaia]

I like the idea of Egis gradually weakening and needing to be swapped. Think Pokemon Trainer from SSBB, where your attacks gradually weakened over two minutes. It would simultaneously excuse the new egis being somewhat similar to the current, and make the Summoner focus more on the actual summoning.

Yea something like that, or an idea I have, you slowly buff you pet with stacking buff and at max stacks you can enkindle doing some burst, but killing the pet and forcing a switch, even if the egis just get a simple single target and an aoe attack just the fact your using enkindle more often and having to actaully summon things in battle gives off a SMN vibe. I do actually prefer the idea of it slowly weakening though so you dont have situations where a fully buffed egi is more damage than using enkindle. Enkindle does need to play a more prominent role to SMN though.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Yea something like that, or an idea I have, you slowly buff you pet with stacking buff and at max stacks you can enkindle doing some burst, but killing the pet and forcing a switch, even if the egis just get a simple single target and an aoe attack just the fact your using enkindle more often and having to actaully summon things in battle gives off a SMN vibe. I do actually prefer the idea of it slowly weakening though so you dont have situations where a fully buffed egi is more damage than using enkindle. Enkindle does need to play a more prominent role to SMN though.

Both of these ideas sound great. It really would be nice for SMN to have a reason to use multiple Egi during a fight. Both the weakening and buff stacking idea would make the SMN pay closer attention to their Egi during a fight in order to know when to switch them out. Also with more Egi being released it would ensure a SMN will actually use them all and not just one or two.

Personally I prefer the buff stacking idea coz building up stacks on the Egi in order to release an Enkindle with a high damage output sounds really fun! It would give a real focus to the Egi and also plays into the traditional concept of a Summon being dismissed after doing its signature attack. Perhaps the Egi could also increase in size slightly with each buff stack before Enkindle is unleashed, kinda like a Bomb. This would be a good way of giving the Egi that size increase that some of us really want, and since it's not a permanent size increase it would not be detrimental to other players.

[Jandor]

Yea something like that, or an idea I have, you slowly buff you pet with stacking buff and at max stacks you can enkindle doing some burst, but killing the pet and forcing a switch, even if the egis just get a simple single target and an aoe attack just the fact your using enkindle more often and having to actaully summon things in battle gives off a SMN vibe. I do actually prefer the idea of it slowly weakening though so you dont have situations where a fully buffed egi is more damage than using enkindle. Enkindle does need to play a more prominent role to SMN though.

Pets gaining Aetherflow stacks like a Summoner could work.
Aetherflow could give the pet an aetherflow buff, Rouse could as well and so could Spur. At 3 stacks they would be able to use an improved Enkindle that dismisses the pet and combo's with the other Summon skills making them instant cast MP free actions.
So Swiftcast > Summon III > Aetherflow > Rouse > Spur > Enkindle > Insta-summon Garuda for free while Ifrit goes on a long cool down.

Pets could also start off slightly weaker than they are at the moment but aether stacks would give them minor buffs, at 1 they'd be as they are now, 2 would be a very minor improvement and 3 would be just short of rouse. I also like the idea that the pet physically grows as more aether is pumped into it. Pet aether stacks unlike SMN ones couldn't last indefenitely though, after a fairly decent duration the buff would dissapear, I'd have the timer closely linked with the aetherflow ability so always keeping one stack on them would be a fairly straightforward task but keeping them buffed or having abilities ready to buff them for Enkindle would require much more skill and diligence.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Pets gaining Aetherflow stacks like a Summoner could work.
Aetherflow could give the pet an aetherflow buff, Rouse could as well and so could Spur. At 3 stacks they would be able to use an improved Enkindle that dismisses the pet and combo's with the other Summon skills making them instant cast MP free actions.
So Swiftcast > Summon III > Aetherflow > Rouse > Spur > Enkindle > Insta-summon Garuda for free while Ifrit goes on a long cool down.

Pets could also start off slightly weaker than they are at the moment but aether stacks would give them minor buffs, at 1 they'd be as they are now, 2 would be a very minor improvement and 3 would be just short of rouse. I also like the idea that the pet physically grows as more aether is pumped into it. Pet aether stacks unlike SMN ones couldn't last indefenitely though, after a fairly decent duration the buff would dissapear, I'd have the timer closely linked with the aetherflow ability so always keeping one stack on them would be a fairly straightforward task but keeping them buffed or having abilities ready to buff them for Enkindle would require much more skill and diligence.

That sounds like a pretty solid rotation. I like how that stacks are linked to Aetherflow, Rouse and Spur. Though I think at least one or two of those stacks should be permanent buffs to the Egi and only get removed when it is either killed, dismissed, or out of combat too long. The reason I say that is coz there are certain fights where AoE abilites like Enkindle can either hinder or wipe the party, like Liavinne from Tam Tara Hard for example. So I think the stacks will need to have a use outside of building for the improved Enkindle. Perhaps the first two stacks could be permanent to the Egi, buffing its damage output as well as increasing its physical size. Then on the final stack it could again get buffed up but also gain an enraged like status effect that ticks down (it could be called Primal Rage or something) and when it hits 0 the Egi would explode, instantly killing it and putting it on a long cooldown. This would mean the final stack should only be used for the improved Enkindle and forces the SMN to keep an eye on the Primal Rage timer so they don't miss the chance to unleash the Enkindle, as well as starting the buff stack combo again from scratch with a new Egi.

[pandabearcat]

If we reduce the cooldown of Enkindle (lower damage to compensate), and make Enkindle have a different flavor for each Egi (as in, different abilities, such as Enkindle: Ifrit and Enkindle: Garuda), and have it replace your Egi with the new one, it would fill a niche for us for on demand burst and also allow us to swap instantly.

It would also be flavorful to have our Egi's cast their big ability when they are summoned.

[Sagittarian]

Regarding what new summons there might be, I think they will stick to fights you have to complete in the story line. So probably no Phoenix. Mog would be cute but there are 2 moogle minions already and I can see them wanting to keep that appearance separate (although they already have the models...)
So for anything past the next set, we'll have to see what the story line has us fighting.

[pandabearcat]

The problem with swiftcast summon is our mana explodes x.x We need a far cheaper way of swapping summons if that is something we want to put into our rotation.

If only swiftcast also reduced mana cost to 0...too OP then though, and BLM will do even better.

[Koyuki38]

SMN really has hundreds of possibilities to focus on pets and less dots

(this list is just few examples)
- give pets a buff for few time after summoning it or (like previous post) make it stronger and stronger over time and give it a finishing move before sumoning another.
- give smn a spell to change pet (with previous buff). this needs instant cast, very short animation, low mana cost, etc.
- give all pets their own CD
- give pet a bonus on each sumon equal to the ruin we are not casting when summoning.
- give them all same DPS but different utilities.
- create a special summoning spells which do something on hit, like a fire AOE which result in sumoning ifrit.
- give 3 aether stacks when summoning. The more stack we have, the stronger is the pet. Then when we have 0 stack left (cause of fester) change pet to get 3 other stack, 60 sec cd.

Another example of switching mecanic :
Open with Ifrit -> use Enkidle (ifrit hit with a dot) -> switch to Garuda -> use Dot Extend time on B,B2,M,M2,Enkidle

I tried this a day, it's possible to do with swift cast but it doesn't extend the Ifrit's dot from Enkidle.
Since Ruin and Summoning Garuda use both a GCD, it's worth because +15 sec from Enkidle dot is better than a Ruin.

[SoloWingMetatron]

SMN really has hundreds of possibilities to focus on pets and less dots

(this list is just few examples)
- give pets a buff for few time after summoning it or (like previous post) make it stronger and stronger over time and give it a finishing move before sumoning another.
- give smn a spell to change pet (with previous buff). this needs instant cast, very short animation, low mana cost, etc.
- give all pets their own CD
- give pet a bonus on each sumon equal to the ruin we are not casting when summoning.
- give them all same DPS but different utilities.
- create a special summoning spells which do something on hit, like a fire AOE which result in sumoning ifrit.
- give 3 aether stacks when summoning. The more stack we have, the stronger is the pet. Then when we have 0 stack left (cause of fester) change pet to get 3 other stack, 60 sec cd.

Another example of switching mecanic :
Open with Ifrit -> use Enkidle (ifrit hit with a dot) -> switch to Garuda -> use Dot Extend time on B,B2,M,M2,Enkidle

I tried this a day, it's possible to do with swift cast but it doesn't extend the Ifrit's dot from Enkidle.
Since Ruin and Summoning Garuda use both a GCD, it's worth because +15 sec from Enkidle dot is better than a Ruin.

All those ideas sound pretty good also. Though personally I prefer the buff stack idea still, only because it provides something for everyone. So for those who are seeking a specific thing to be changed or added to SMN will be provided that through this idea in some way. Like for me I really want to see a larger focus on Egi and to have larger Egi. This idea provides that in a way that will not deter those who want something different for SMN (which this idea also caters to) So in many ways it's the perfect compromise of the many different ideas that people want for SMN.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I'm sure whatever SE has planned for the future of SMN and the Egi it will be good though. But I was farming Ramuh for light yesterday, and thought the size of the Grey Arbiters would be perfect for the Egi! They are larger but not to a degree where they are blocking other players views. It also seems pretty clear the Grey Arbiters will be the same model used for the Ramuh Egi, just glowing purple instead. Although in the new benchmark for Heavensward, towards the end it looks like Ifrit has had a noticable size increase.

Though honestly, I think one of the reasons we keep asking for a change in SMN/Egi is simply just because we have became so used to it at level 50 and therefore became complacent/bored with the current Egi/abilities. I have faith Heavenward will alleviate this. I know once I unlock the first new Egi I'll have a new sense of vigor about trying it out and unlocking the others! That will be my top priority for Heavensward. I'm really looking forward to the new Austerities trials to unlock the Egi also, though I wonder where each one will take place. I assume the Austerities of Ice for the Shiva Egi will take place in Coerthas, but what about the others?