"Eureka, the Forbidden Land" thories [Crystal Tower SPOILERS]

[Fenral]

(The entirety of this post operates on two assumptions: one, that the Crystal Tower storyline was intended to exist in complete isolation from the Main Scenario, except perhaps for some stand-alone sequel; and two, that the tower's future purpose, as described, is meant to be taken literally. Both are probatio diabolica.)

Also, unmarked spoilers for an old, out-of-print manga, but there's no way for me to discuss it if I [HB ] every spoiler, because what I've found is that the two stories overlap (and contradict) in a very interesting way.


I remembered something. Dangerous word choice, considering the topic, but I finally realized exactly what it was about that final scene (in the quest “The Light of Hope”) that set off the warning bells in my head and told me that everything about it was just plain wrong. Turns out there's a certain famous manga, by a certain internationally acclaimed Japanese animator, cited by Sakaguchi himself as influencing the Final Fantasy series, that covered a lot of the same ground. Too much, in my mind, to be entirely coincidental.

[Stop reading now if you know the manga I'm talking about and intend to read it any time soon. Sorry for your time.]

A highly advanced ancient civilization, responsible for destroying the world with their technology, sets in motion a plan, that the people of the future might use that same knowledge to rebuild the world when the time is right. After a thousand years, the sole remaining “light” in the “darkness” of the destroyed world is a vast repository of all the technology needed to create a peaceful new future for all of humanity. The avatar of said repository asks our protagonist, at the end of her journey, to become the guardian of this “light of hope” and see its vast knowledge put to use for the good of all mankind.

Naturally, she destroys it.

Wait, what?

Turns out, this ancient civilization, which was not above the use of artificially-created humanoids to do its dirty work, wanted very strongly to create a world with none of the despair and suffering of the old world, and had all of the tech ready to do just that. To create a new dawn for a peaceful new humanity, at the cost of all the things that, to our red-haired, red-eyed protagonist, allow us to experience life in the first place.


Not quite there yet?


“Oh, but the Crystal Tower is different: it only destroyed the world because it was misused. Surely there's nothing wrong with using it if we use it correctly, right?“

In spite of the overwhelming similarities in word choice between the two, I probably would not have thought to make a direct connection if not for one curious bit of dialogue from Unei:

In that glorious age, the Crystal Tower stood tall as the symbol of Allagan pride. Parents took their children there, that they might learn how the nigh limitless energy it produced brought prosperity to the whole empire.
That prosperity, however, bred decadence, and the empire began to show signs of stagnation. This decline was made all the more rapid for want of strong leadership.
In a matter of generations, the Allagan civilization became a pale shadow of its former self. Its once gleaming cities fell into disrepair, and its frontier lands were given over to the wilderness.

It seems like it should be a pretty big philosophical point, but while it should be a key part of the larger problem of what the tower represents, it's simply never mentioned again. If it represented hope to the people of Allag, it was their reliance on that same hope that started their decline, not Amon, Xande, or Dalamud.

Is this light of hope really something that must be given back to humanity? Can the tower still represent hope if the full extent of its capabilities cannot be relied on without repeating the downfall of Allag?

It's a complicated question with no easy answer, if we are to take G'raha's intent at face value and assume he hasn't jumped the gun at all in his interpretation of his ancestors' wish. The entire thing could easily be written off later as a metaphor for some simpler purpose, possibly even awakening G'raha himself as a beacon of hope. What follows are my thoughts in the event that it won't:

Ultimately, what struck me is exactly how close the Tower's current state now, with G'raha inside, is to the Crypt of Shuwa. For those who have kept up this far, the manga I'm referring to is Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaä of the Valley of Wind, and while the entire seven-volume story is about clinging to hope in a world on the brink of ruin, when presented with a chance to guarantee world peace and a bright future for the whole of humanity, Nausicaa destroys it, choosing a future where the humans of today follow their own path to the end, even if that end is extinction.

It's a pretty powerful message, and this plot has been referenced in Final Fantasy before, most directly with Gaia and Terra in Final Fantasy IX. I don't think it would be a stretch to think it influenced the writers, even subconsciously.


All this lead me to a “what if?”:

We already know that the Allagans were not above the literal use of crushed dreams as a power source (as in, Dalamud), and while the Doga and Unei we met seemed to sacrifice their lives willingly, they were, essentially, clones not given a chance to define their own identities as separate from their originals. And what of G'raha Tia, who was living his own life in search of the truth behind a trait that gave him a pretty hard time as a kid, until the “wish” passed on in his blood awakened and required him to give up his place in the world he grew up in to fulfill it?

What if, whatever secrets lie within the “Forbidden Land” beneath the Crystal Tower become the tipping point in a conflict that has been teased but has yet to properly play out? What if Eureka, not Syrcus Tower, is the place where Cid will finally come to his own answer as to whether or not he should be working towards a future where mankind lives like the Allagans, or towards a different future entirely?

I may be totally grasping at straws, or it could be that the groundwork has been laid and we're simply waiting for the real payoff. Thoughts?

[Fenral]

Tl;dr: It was possible to send a message about hope, in very similar circumstances, without ending it they way they did, so with the presence of Eureka teased by that certain cutscene, is there some deeper reason that they didn't?

Four "Like!"s tells me that not everyone thinks I'm crazy, at least. Which is a shame, actually, because I was hoping someone besides me would have some useful insight. Considering 2.55 treated us to FFXIV's new and improved stance on ambitious optimism (poor Alphinaud), the above is simply one highly probable question out of many I can see being raised in some future storyline involving Cid and more Allagan tech.

But that the entire thing simply happened as a way for the Allagans to "redeem" themselves, and G'raha Tia was simply a one-off legendary Pokemon who showed up to teach us about the responsible use of ancient doomsday machines and our role in shaping the future of humanity, seems to be an understanding that works for most people, so I dunno.

I also get the feeling that this is simply the one subject that nobody wants to play ball with me on, which may or may not be entirely my fault for having such strong convictions. /sigh

[Grayve]

frankly, I don't understand what your asking. It got all rambly and referred to stuff I haven't read or watched, though I have heard of the series. The tower was sealed because it contained things that were deemed unsafe. The parallels to Valley of the Wind, if I understand correctly, don't really line up. Few people saw the Tower as the hope, it's an archeology interest. None of the city states seem that concerned, the world isn't on the brink of ruin, and we know that the garleans have been using thier own stores of Allagan lore for years, as told in the Fall of the White Raven.

As for hope, wel, the WoL is the hope of a lot of people, now, I guess.

[Causality]

Few people saw the Tower as the hope, it's an archeology interest. None of the city states seem that concerned, the world isn't on the brink of ruin, and we know that the garleans have been using thier own stores of Allagan lore for years, as told in the Fall of the White Raven.

As for hope, wel, the WoL is the hope of a lot of people, now, I guess.

You are forgetting every single Hope filled Giant outside of it that views it as a Sacred place and fight to the death to defend it from the archaeologists.

[Fenral]

That's just it, we didn't just seal it away, we sealed it with someone (arguably possessed) inside so that, in spite of the dangers, it could be used to power the entire world again, and become a symbol of hope like it was for the Allagans. Even though that was established before as having had really serious consequences the first time. The conditions for use were even given as "when mankind has reached the same heights as the Allagans." The notion of history repeating itself comes to mind.

Again, it's a totally crack theory, and comparing one story to another is really not the best way to go about analysis, but it was a useful lens to look through as I dug around. Their purpose served, I'll drop the comparisons from here on.


As it stands, the urgency of G'raha's action is weakened considerably by not establishing what it would cost Eorzea if he didn't seal himself inside, and just made the tower itself sleep permanently. We can't use it now either way, and there's only so much good it can do in a society as advanced as the people who built it in the first place. "Hope" can also exist just fine without it, as the WoL proves daily.

Assuming conservation of detail hasn't been thrown out the window, (I want to believe it hasn't) there are two paths I can see:

1) There's some other way to use it, and G'raha's waiting for someone who understands that other way, because it could have dire consequences if not used at that specific time. The tower is used as a one-off plot device later, for something, avoiding the issues of long-term dependence touched on before.

2) The writers use whatever unwritten story they have planned for the "forbidden land" to properly explore what it would mean to model Eorzea's future after the Allagan Empire. Eureka houses the Allagan Empire's dirty little secret, and learning that secret changes Cid's mind about a lot of things, including the Crystal Tower itself. Drama ensues.

[Duuude007]

They said that if they did Erureka, it would come after 3.0 launch if at all.

[Cilia]

I don't know if the writers ever planned to use Eureka as a part of the Crystal Tower storyline. The Forbidden Land was never even mentioned as a part of the quest chain. I'm kind of sad they didn't, but it's not a huge deal.

I earnestly don't know what you're referencing, otherwise I might be more inclined to debate this with you.

As for finding "another way" to use the Crystal Tower, I don't know if there is one. It's stated it was used to gather solar energy (from Dalamud), but to what end? It's basically a highly advanced solar power station, nothing more as far as we know. G'raha sealed himself inside it so it would still be useful when people were able to harness its power without abuse as the Allagans did... but we know that's more than likely not going to happen during the course of our Warrior of Light's story.

On the other hand, the history of Eorzea (and greater Hydaelyn) is cyclical, going through Astral and Umbral eras. Someone is always going to get power-hungry and some calamity is going to cause an Umbral Era eventually. Just like the ending of both Dark Souls games, the choice (or rather, thinking you can break the cycle) is an illusion - what you do doesn't really matter, because the cycle of history and Astral and Umbral Eras will continue to spin regardless. You might be able to forestall it, but there's no preventing an Umbral Era from coming.

As far as I can tell as well, the Crystal Tower was meant to be a mostly self-contained storyline. Nothing has lasting implications for the main storyline except Nero casting aside his obsession with outshining Cid and possibly becoming more heroic.

[Duuude007]

The Forbidden Land was never even mentioned as a part of the quest chain.

Not by name, but if you follow what Nero's scanner was meant to find.... Its pretty obvious.

[Cilia]

Not by name, but if you follow what Nero's scanner was meant to find.... Its pretty obvious.

I don't know... the spatial relationship between Syrcus Tower and Eureka was never given in FF III. Not that I remember, but it's been a few years since I played it. Either way we'd need access to the foyer of Syrcus Tower to get to Eureka, and we don't have that... because G'raha sealed it up.

That's all assuming XIV's Syrcus Tower is identical to III's... which it mostly is aside from lore bits (which are adaptations from III to fit XIV's world), so I'm assuming this holds true as well.

[Duuude007]

I don't know... the spatial relationship between Syrcus Tower and Eureka was never given in FF III. Not that I remember, but it's been a few years since I played it. Either way we'd need access to the foyer of Syrcus Tower to get to Eureka, and we don't have that... because G'raha sealed it up.

That's all assuming XIV's Syrcus Tower is identical to III's... which it mostly is aside from lore bits (which are adaptations from III to fit XIV's world), so I'm assuming this holds true as well.

FF3 Spatial relationship: you go to the door adjacent to the main entrance, go downstairs, BAM, Eureka.