Extrem undercutting?

[DarkDedede]

Do people actually have bots managing their prices for them? I've often wondered this.

When I look for opportunities on the market, I sometimes end up selling at a slightly discounted price, but but with a larger stack of goods. All my competition is selling at a lower stack, for a higher price. What boggles my mind is that, sometimes immediately, these folks will lower their price lower than mine. One would think that they wouldn't want to short themselves, when they are still technically the lowest price. The mindless bot explanation does make more sense. I suppose their bots just don't have the most robust design.

[GenJoe]

Do people actually have bots managing their prices for them? I've often wondered this.

When I look for opportunities on the market, I sometimes end up selling at a slightly discounted price, but but with a larger stack of goods. All my competition is selling at a lower stack, for a higher price. What boggles my mind is that, sometimes immediately, these folks will lower their price lower than mine. One would think that they wouldn't want to short themselves, when they are still technically the lowest price. The mindless bot explanation does make more sense. I suppose their bots just don't have the most robust design.

I don't think those are bots though.. I've seen people complain on the forums about their suspicion of undercutting bots when they get into an undercutting battle in real time, undercutting one another every 30 seconds.. But you have to realize, if YOU're doing that in real time, the other guy's just doing exactly what you're doing.. How can one say the other person's a bot when the two of them are doing the exact same things.

If there's any pattern to the undercutting, i.e. undercut by the exact same amount, same stack size listing etc.. then maybe.. But in my experience, the instant undercutters usually also mess with stack sizes when the price wars get real. (i.e. when price goes to non-profitable, they start listing smaller, fewer stacks and don't adjust price on every single listing because they have no intention of unloading all of their merchandise at such low price, it's just to force out the other person)

[Kaiser-Ace]

Me personally, on Balmung Server I single handedly crashed the Market for any Accuracy Materia below rank 4. And I intend to do the same with all others.

There is no reason ANY single items should cost 400k+. That's just insane. So all you balmung players out there, I'm the reason your Rank 3 Accuracy Materia is now worthless. Thank you.
<Ports out>

[m3eansean]

There is no reason ANY single items should cost 400k+. That's just insane. <Ports out>

Chris - I see you have no crafting or gathering classes to 50 and as such, have no idea the amount of time and effort required to gather materials needed to make high end crafting goods. There is a very good reason why things can reach over 400k, largely due to the effort involved in gathering the materials needed (fishing windows anyone?). Not to mention in order to gather and craft most high end things, you need to be completely overmelded on your gear, which takes again significant time and effort.

[GenJoe]

Chris - I see you have no crafting or gathering classes to 50 and as such, have no idea the amount of time and effort required to gather materials needed to make high end crafting goods. There is a very good reason why things can reach over 400k, largely due to the effort involved in gathering the materials needed (fishing windows anyone?). Not to mention in order to gather and craft most high end things, you need to be completely overmelded on your gear, which takes again significant time and effort.

Nah that only justifies the base mats costing so much, it still doesn't explain the 1m+ profit margin on a finished product.

i.e. I can, at this moment, literally make Inferno weapons and make a 3m+ profit on each one easily.. It's not really hard to make one either, but the lack of crafters willing to take on the project has it so that on Jenova at least, there are only 2 people on MB that make and sell Inferno weapons..

On a less extreme, but more prevalent side of things, forager's and artisan's gear all have about 1m+ profit on it, on Jenova. There's really no other argument to make for that other than, because people will buy it at that price point.


Same goes for materia, people are so afraid of RNG they don't ever try to tackle the RNG problem by mass producing.. Afraid of getting 1 tier IV out of 50 converts? Do 500, 5000, 50000, and the number will eventually start to show a pattern close to the standard value.. and yet, people try spiritbonding 2 sets of gear, end up with no tier IVs and determine that tier IIIs should still make profit for them, otherwise they'd be LOSING money. That mindset sets in, and causes people to overprice their item because they're afraid of losing money. Which is fine and dandy, just don't get mad at me for undercutting by a large amount because I know my margin of profit better (due to larger number of data samples).

[m3eansean]

Snip

Those crafted items in turn require leveling almost every other craft up to 50, which is a huge time sink and investment. Since time can't be quantified a value easily, it's understandable to see that some feel the time spent getting to the point to make these 3 and 4 star items is equivalent to a 1million gil profit margin. Also the system is 100% free market, so it will only bear the cost of any item that consumers are willing to pay. The only reason there is the 1million gil profit margin is because we can assume the consumers feel this is a "fair" price for the item. If they dont, the item stagnates and sits on the board for days and eventually gets knocked down in price.

[GenJoe]

Those crafted items in turn require leveling almost every other craft up to 50, which is a huge time sink and investment. Since time can't be quantified a value easily, it's understandable to see that some feel the time spent getting to the point to make these 3 and 4 star items is equivalent to a 1million gil profit margin. Also the system is 100% free market, so it will only bear the cost of any item that consumers are willing to pay. The only reason there is the 1million gil profit margin is because we can assume the consumers feel this is a "fair" price for the item. If they dont, the item stagnates and sits on the board for days and eventually gets knocked down in price.

You're just repeating what I said :P Except, I emphasize your latter point.. People charge that much because people PAY that much, I don't think there are too many crafters who think that the time and effort they put in is worth THAT much profit, consumers feel like it is though.

Because, the items are produced by 4 star crafters and bought by 2 star crafters.
As a 4 star crafter, you know how ridiculously easy it is to make said gear, you know how little risk there is involved in making it hq, But as a 2 star crafter, you're in the dark about the apparent "difficulty" and "RNG" so you're willing to shell out the money. It's the norm, so it seems somewhat justified, and justified it is, no need to explain your price in a free market.

I don't personally agree with Kaiser's point of view, if there's profit to be made, I'll go for it. I may crash the market but it's not for a noble cause like he stated, it would mainly be to drive out the competitor and piss them off. But he has a valid point, there is too much bloat on the MB prices. I make sure to take plenty advantage of it while I can though..

[Kaiser-Ace]

I don't personally agree with Kaiser's point of view, if there's profit to be made, I'll go for it. I may crash the market but it's not for a noble cause like he stated, it would mainly be to drive out the competitor and piss them off. But he has a valid point, there is too much bloat on the MB prices. I make sure to take plenty advantage of it while I can though..

Noble intentions nothing >_> I started that plan months ago when I started racking up on cheep materia with the sole intention of collapsing the market. I don't think 3 rank 4s should cost as much as a small house plot so I'm undermining the inflation. As you said, it's supply and demand. Materia especially is like playing stocks. It booms and crashes. I've seen it boom three times now and crash twice on Balmung. It's all about buying it during the crash, then hording it until the next boom and cashing in big. If every one started making 4 star craft items rather than buying them than most crafter would be out of work.

I assure you, no sooner than I DO get my crafts that high (Which I do after my weeklies are all caped) then I'll never buy a crafted item again. And I'll still be a pain to people I think are grosly over charging simply because I'm like that IRL. I don't mind doubling or tripling your money but charging ten times more than it took to make is nuts. And if my refusal to do it hurts the people that do and crashes that market bubble too, Bonus.

[Bombast]

Me personally, on Balmung Server I single handedly crashed the Market for any Accuracy Materia below rank 4. And I intend to do the same with all others.

There is no reason ANY single items should cost 400k+. That's just insane. So all you balmung players out there, I'm the reason your Rank 3 Accuracy Materia is now worthless. Thank you.
<Ports out>

Hardly. Heavens Eye has fluctuated heavily since Alexandrite first appeared. I have doubts that you have had a significant impact, particularly on Balmung.

But sure, keep telling yourself that.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Hardly. Heavens Eye has fluctuated heavily since Alexandrite first appeared. I have doubts that you have had a significant impact, particularly on Balmung.

But sure, keep telling yourself that.

It may have happened any way but I assuere you when I started selling Heaven's Eye 3s for 850-1200 gil they were selling for almost 10k. I may not have killed it but I definitely didn't help.