Is FFXIV a Casual or Hardcore Game? (Thinking About Player Expectations)

[Purrfectstorm]

Hi everyone. Yoshi said in the beginning that FFXIV was going to be a casual game. If that's true, why are hardcore players upset about content nerfs?

If FFXIV is a hardcore game, why are casual players upset that they have to watch video guides?

My opinion is that FFXIV has both casual and hardcore elements. I don't think this is a bad thing. I'm just confused why players have the expectations they do. Why should content remain difficult once the hardcore crowd is done with it? And why do casual players think they can approach difficult content with the same level of preparation that they approach easy content?

[Bawnawgwa]

It is mostly casual. Coil is really the only hard core content (ex primals too, but they are undoubtedly easier than coil). Hardcore players get upset over needs because it makes it "more casual" cuz god forbid other people be capable of doing it...

But yeah, not watching a video is dumb. All you do is waste everyone's time by wiping us all as you learn cuz you couldn't watch a 10 minute video. If you get a full group that wants to figure it out without video, then by all means. Don't try to join others unprepared though.

[Cutie_McSnuggles]

But yeah, not watching a video is dumb.

I NEVER EVER EVER EVER watch a video before attempting content. It's a stupid expectation and people should stop.

[Tiggy]

Oh no. Here comes the wave of people doing nothing but complaining about the hardcore players all while white washing them with their own prejudices.

Example A comes right away.

Hardcore players get upset over needs because it makes it "more casual" cuz god forbid other people be capable of doing it... .

Instead of giving you a real answer he took the jab at hardcore players. Expect more like this for this thread. (You'll tend to notice this kind of nastiness is almost always directly at the hardcore, not coming from it)

[Kallera]

Oh no. Here comes the wave of people doing nothing but complaining about the hardcore players all while white washing them with their own prejudices.

Example A comes right away.



Instead of giving you a real answer he took the jab at hardcore players. Expect more like this for this thread. (You'll tend to notice this kind of nastiness is almost always directly at the hardcore, not coming from it)

I tend to notice it from both sides these days, hardcore players are not as blameless as you think, they just have their own threads.

I believe that this game is a casual game, and because of that perception, there is a hardcore mentality made at its top, with assumptions that it already is so easy people must have something wrong with them if they cannot clear it before nerfs, or are otherwise detrimental to the community.

In turn, casual players get mad at the abuse they receive for being unable/unwilling to clear content, wondering where the fun went. They respond with abuse of their own, and the cycle plays out over version updates "favoring" one group over another,and the forums with calls to "get gud".

[Saseal]

I look at it as having both, but easily much more geared towards the more casual. There are only really a hand full of content a casual couldn't (or wouldn't) do - whether it be time to practice, skillset/coordination/reaction time, or lack of time to even join a static. But at the same time it's because there is only a handful of that kind of challenge, that the hardcore are complaining. They certainly like SOMEthing about the game and it's bits of hardcore content, regardless what small amount there is... Otherwise they wouldn't be bothered to complain.

People complain because they can. Someone always wants more than what they have, whether it's complaining in a temporary situation that a person didn't watch the guide vid or complaining that there isn't more hardcore content for them to defeat. It's human nature to want what a person does not have or to seek out new challenges.

[Terrini]

I hate it when people say "Go watch the video" and expect that to make everyone PERFECT at doing the fight. All it does is give people an idea what to expect. You can't DO the content unless people LET you do the content. I've watched the T5 video, and every time I've tried to DF or PF it? Party falls apart after 2 wipes even as a "learning party". Even having seen the video you can't expect us to just be able to anticipate mechanics doing our job and watching everything, it takes practice, but no one has any patience.

And plus? The people that first cleared and first made those videos didn't have videos to watch, THEY had to figure it out and do it on their own. So everyone else is just meant to copy someone else's achievement they way they achieved it?

For those hard contents it seems if you are missing something in your party makeup you just fail.

[Saseal]

I hate it when people say "Go watch the video" and expect that to make everyone PERFECT at doing the fight. All it does is give people an idea what to expect. You can't DO the content unless people LET you do the content.

I prefer watchign the vids just so I have an idea - but yeah, no instance is going to be the same on the harder content - people are the factors of the unexpected.
What annoys me about some content - the vids are out of date. THey'll tell you to do one thing, but by the time you do it, or a newer player does it, they'll go by the video when the methods have evolved. THats what happened to me in T5, for some bits - watched a vid and thought of the mechanics that way upon entering - but the majority of the party attempts went by other methods..... so it was a lot like going int blind with just a "oh yeah, and the monster casts this" - but the reaction to the mechanics are different anyway.

[nuyu11]

Snip.

Actually it's depend to whom you are with. If your team willing to accept wipe few times then there is no issue with it, everyone having a first experience and sometimes we make mistake. Some people want a clear run without fails in one go, well if you have a good sync with your team then yes, in DF we can't do that and don't whine if people make mistake. If they make same mistakes then better ask yourself whether your guide delivered to them directly or you just shouting like a mad man.

I watch 5 times guide vid 30 min long about t5 but in the end I screw-up 3 times that caused team wipe, but my FC friends can accept it so there is no issue with it. I'm not really understand what do people expect by watching vid can make new player go without fail.

From my point of view, this game is fairly casual. But some people said after t6 there will be more challenging.

[KisaiTenshi]

I hate it when people say "Go watch the video" and expect that to make everyone PERFECT at doing the fight. All it does is give people an idea what to expect. You can't DO the content unless people LET you do the content. I've watched the T5 video, and every time I've tried to DF or PF it? Party falls apart after 2 wipes even as a "learning party". Even having seen the video you can't expect us to just be able to anticipate mechanics doing our job and watching everything, it takes practice, but no one has any patience.

And plus? The people that first cleared and first made those videos didn't have videos to watch, THEY had to figure it out and do it on their own. So everyone else is just meant to copy someone else's achievement they way they achieved it?

For those hard contents it seems if you are missing something in your party makeup you just fail.

Walkthroughs and GameFAQ's and now Youtube has ruined "learning" a game. So people miss out on the fun of learning it, and miss out on any other solutions that might actually be better based on the developers intent. Videos don't really help because not everyone "classroom" learns, other people learn by doing, and when people demand everyone watch a video first, doesn't mean squat. So say Mr.Happy says to do something that is later proven to be worse than another solution, nobody is going to go find another video to see if there are other solutions, no they're just going to use whatever video first appears on a wiki and be done with it.

Everyone should go in blind to all content, and put up with wipes and only abandon the instance if it's unwinnable (eg tanks gear is all destroyed.) If someone wants an easy run, they should run the content with their FC instead and quit trying to squeeze blood out of a DF stone.