The final part of ARR story doesn't make enough sense.

[Mimiru_S]

Yeah, but it was with Hydaelyn's help, which we aren't going to get while facing the Braves and Blades. So saying, as some are, "Hey, we fought the primals solo!" doesn't mean much. The bulk of our power at the time was coming from the Crystals.

Lol, if I recall correctly, when we fought Ifrit we only had one of the crystals. So other than the Echo, maybe we didn't rely as much on Hydaelyn, as you believe.

[Viridiana]

Lol, if I recall correctly, when we fought Ifrit we only had one of the crystals. So other than the Echo, maybe we didn't rely as much on Hydaelyn, as you believe.

At the risk of turning it into a story versus gameplay conversation, though, at the time he was summoned with less crystals than he would later be, and we ourselves weren't at the height our powers would eventually reach.

[Aylon]

I believe merely for gameplay purposes. Story-wise, we do face each primal, solo.

I disagree. Story-wise we are always told to gather adventurers or get help. If it would be for Gameplay purposes only, why should the npcs mention it? Why would they show other Party-Members in Cutscenes in Dungeons and Raids? We really aren´t that strong. Story-wise I would consider the GC-Leaders, the Scions like Thancred, Papalymo, Y´shtola and Yda, the Ascians and the Garlean Generals stronger than us. Don´t think, we would stand a chance in a one on one. Even against the Garlearean Generals it was a 8 on 1 in most cases. We defeated Ultima and Lahabrea only with massive help from Hydaelyn.

Even in the instanced Fights in some Story or Class-Quests we wouldn´t accomplish much, if we wouldn´t have help from various NPCs.

[Mimiru_S]

I disagree. Story-wise we are always told to gather adventurers or get help. If it would be for Gameplay purposes only, why should the npcs mention it? Why would they show other Party-Members in Cutscenes in Dungeons and Raids? We really aren´t that strong. Story-wise I would consider the GC-Leaders, the Scions like Thancred, Papalymo, Y´shtola and Yda, the Ascians and the Garlean Generals stronger than us. Don´t think, we would stand a chance in a one on one. Even against the Garlearean Generals it was a 8 on 1 in most cases. We defeated Ultima and Lahabrea only with massive help from Hydaelyn.

Even in the instanced Fights in some Story or Class-Quests we wouldn´t accomplish much, if we wouldn´t have help from various NPCs.

Lets just agree to disagree, shall we?

[RobinRethiel]

As said: I don't see anyone who really wants to slaughter the poor Brass Blades, many of them for sure even don't know what is happening and just thrown into this treachery. And also no one says: omg, I'm the WoL, I could pwn this city! Totally!

It's simply about the... try to stop this coup. Remember FF9, when the group tries to save the city and fought against Beatrix. Hell, she owned the group at the end of the fight and when Ilberd is indeed some "hardcore" agent of someone, prepared for all this, so he may have some tricks ready to beat us - perfectly fine. No one says and wants, that we simply stomp the bad guys. But just running away like a coward, abandoning the Sultana, Raubahn, the Scions and all the people of Uldah... I mean, we are no princess (or prince). We ARE somehow the first and last line of defense against the worst evil. It just feels wrong to turn around and run without a real reason, even IF a fight may cause some political mishaps. But we are no politicians. I think the way most people play their character would mean anyway, that they would not even give it a first thought. - And a coup, especially one bloody like that, means anyway, that diplomacy is dead.

It feels forced, because the reason we flee is... odd. The WoL is exactly the one, who does not flee. S/he is the one, who stays. Even if she dies. To save others. That was the main story of our characters.Story-wise I always see the elite guardians of city getting simply slashed by normal attacks. I don't think that they sent some mere recruits to the most horrible places, just to die there.

But it's always tricky, especially in a FF game. Even the single player games of FF always had such moments - for the sake of the story.

the fact that it doesn't go the way you way makes it more realistic... shit don't always play out the way you want it to.

The opposite is the problem. Things go exactly like they want it. We are robbed of the control over our character and a forced to behave like they want. And exactly THIS is not realistic. It would be, if they really mind control us, something like that may be possible in the reality of FF. But that we just totally act out of character is unrealistic. That's the problem.

We also have to keep in mind that Kan E and Merlwyb were surrounded. Even if they attacked they only had a few body guards with them.

They were given a clear choice to leave, or be arrested as well

Are you kidding me? You want arrest the leaders of Limsi and Gridania? If someone would really not want to do this, it is the putschists. They would have a civil war which, in addition, is pushed by two armies. They would be dead or had to flee before they even had the opportunity to call in allies like the empire. And it would be even worse, if they kill them. It would be like... the republicans killing Obama, Putin and Xi Jiping to take over the USA. But again: no one said, that the leaders should start a slaughter. But maybe avoid it. They have lost the Uldahn leaders of the alliance. Because Raubahn and the Sultana were their allies. Lolo? Not really. And they could have saved Raubahn at least. But yes, this one is tricky. What I miss most there is some more reactions after this. A political earthquake just hit Uldah and the alliance with it. And there is not much of a reaction. Would be fine to more...

Of course, "solo" in this context means "relying very heavily on the Crystals of Light and/or Hydaelyn."

This merely means, that he just can't turn us, like the others. He's still a giant beast with immense powers. Of couse - and I say it again and again - no one wants to slaughter Uldah or the Brass, that was never the point.

[Bhearil]

Ill post a very constructive post from another thread :

1. My character could have taken on the Brass Blades that arrested me!
-Maybe, but it wouldn't have helped prove your innocence. You'd simply be leaving more corpses in your wake, and giving the Monetarists more reason to apprehend you was the last thing you needed. Their numbers were too great to take them all on anyway; the entire city's law enforcement was out for you, not just the four Brass Blades that came in with Teledji. And, again, that's assuming you would be holding yourself together well enough to actually do anything, much less fight.
b]2. I still had my weapon, or wouldn't have given it up![/b]
-From the moment you trigger "The Parting Glass" until you've disembarked at Black Brush Station, you're unarmed. I didn't consider the lack of a weapon all that jarring; no matter how benevolent, would you allow a highly dangerous and armed individual to privately speak with a head of state? That's like sending a French general to go meet with the President alone while the former is toting an M-16, or something to that effect. That wouldn't happen in a hundred years.

3. There weren't enough Brass Blades or Crystal Braves to stop me!
-The entire city's law enforcement was out to get you. The entire city. While yes, we've downed an upwards of seven primals at this point and countless other foes besides, that doesn't make you an invincible combatant. Not by a long shot. With a city full of both Brass Blades and Crystal Braves out for you, their sheer numbers would be enough to bring you down. They wouldn't need to ring an alarm bell because the standing forces of both armies in Ul'dah had been told to hunt us down if we escaped. And, again, you were unarmed during the escape. Where's the plot hole?

4. I wouldn't have fallen for such a cheap trick!
-Well... neither would I. I wouldn't have even taken that vial in the first place; what use do I have for it? I could make one of my own in-game with a little mudstone. I could leave it with Momodi and pick it up later, since she's the one who sent me on that errand. I could leave it with Severian and have him analyze the residue inside. I connected the dots fast enough in reality to tell Nanamo her wine was poisoned. There are any number of things I could have done - from fighting a dozen Primals to wasting time shooting hoops in the Gold Saucer - but from the storyline's perspective our PC was rushed and didn't think it was important, so we took the vial with us. End. Of. Story.

5. I could have stayed for a trial and proved my innocence!
-Ah, no. With Nanamo dead and Raubahn imprisoned (under lawful charges of murder, however sympathetic he might have been), the law can now be bought and sold in Ul'dah. The only people that could testify to your innocence (Laurentius and Ilberd) are known traitors as well, and it's highly unlikely you'd get honest testimony out of them. Assuming there's a jury the Monetarists / Lolorito could probably bribe enough of them to get an outcome favorable to them. They also probably have the judges / magistrates / whatever in their pocket. So good luck with that one.

Honestly, the only bit of writing I have a problem with is where Laurentius insists you take the vial. I immediately get suspicious when people insist I do things. Aside from that though I didn't feel like any of the writing was particularly flawed, and instead of being outraged at how my PC was made... you know... Hyuran (or Roegadyn, or Lalafellian, or Miqo'te, or Elezen) came out feeling more like this in the end.

Plus ill also add some of my opinions:

Both Kan E and Merlwyb just escape and do nothing!

They both were on a diplomatic visit on a foreign soil. If something as big as a regicide happens, their security forces have the duty of get them out of danger ASAP since the place it has become a dangerous one. Plus if they tried to step in they will be intruding on another city state internal affairs and that could lead to a very serious diplomatic conflict, even war.

Their responsabilities are with their people first, then with the rest, no matter their personal feelings.

My character is a super sayan 4, power level wise, cant be beaten by mere soldiers!

Yes and no. It is true that the Wol is VERY powerful, but not as powerful to face so many soldiers alone. Plus people will tend to not believe what you have to say if you kill half of the city army trying to escape even if you succeed.

Despite that he/she is amongst the strongest eorzeans alive

[Kaiser-Ace]

One thing to remember, even if the Scions, The WoL, ALL THREE GC Leaders, and every one else in the room called BS and rushed Lolorito and Teledji, we were still waaaay out numbered. And it only takes ONE lucky shot with an arrow to take any of us out. And they had a lot of arrows.

Take Thancred as an example. It only took one arrow in his knee to render all of his years of combat training and Rouge expertise completely meaningless.

Now imagine if that had hit him in the spine, then some one got a shot off in Y'shtola's chest. Now we don't have a cave in. Back up to Yda and Papalymo, Arrows are faster than spells and you may dodge a few arrows but you will never dodge ALL of a few dozen arrows.

[Rannie]

I'm sorry but the one doing the most arguing and saying we're wrong about logical conclusions taken about certain aspects of the storyline will not even acknowledge any or all logic behind any action that our character did or did not take within the plot. They are wanting every tiny detail explained which is completely and totally unneeded for this type of story telling. They're saying it was too forced then fine they can have that opinion. But I'll now be putting then on my ignore list until they can actually come up with a valid plot hole in which can't be explained by logic, which is what a plot hole is.


You know my only thought now is was the poisoned wine meant for us as well they made too much of a show of the hand maiden walking away with the wine bottle that makes me want to think our glass had the poisoned wine in it as well.

[MomomiMomi]

I believe merely for gameplay purposes. Story-wise, we do face each primal, solo.

They usually mention that you should get (before), and sometimes mention that you had (after), a band of adventurers with you.

I believe even sometimes said in the course of the story dialogue that you should get the adventurers who helped you before.

[RobinRethiel]

One thing to remember, even if the Scions, The WoL, ALL THREE GC Leaders, and every one else in the room called BS and rushed Lolorito and Teledji, we were still waaaay out numbered. And it only takes ONE lucky shot with an arrow to take any of us out. And they had a lot of arrows.

Take Thancred as an example. It only took one arrow in his knee to render all of his years of combat training and Rouge expertise completely meaningless.

Now imagine if that had hit him in the spine, then some one got a shot off in Y'shtola's chest. Now we don't have a cave in. Back up to Yda and Papalymo, Arrows are faster than spells and you may dodge a few arrows but you will never dodge ALL of a few dozen arrows.

This one shot arrow made no sense, because in this case Thancred wouldn't even have been able to meet us anyway. It's one of those typical "cutscene" cliches. You can't just mess around with the power and tell people, that this makes sense. Either you got people with "superpowers" in comparison to reality - or not. If you switch it off and on - what indeed happens all the time in many stories and still it does not make any sense - it's simply enforced. There are even tropes about this and they don't say: Wow, look at these typical cliches, they are awesome!

And you (and I don't mean you alone) don't have to get defensive again. I know, for you all is perfect, so you ignore the points again, make up own points again no one is talking about, just to falsify them and so on. Such "discussions" I know of kindergarten. Impossible to take them serious. Okay? So don't waste your time. You like it. I know this and accept it. For YOU everything is fine. So just ignore this thread. Okay?

And we were not outnumbered. Not in the slightest. They were. And before people start again with a whole army waiting outside:
WE HAD A ****** DISCUSSION OUTSIDE! For minutes! NO ONE came. There was no one waiting outside. And we SAW this. And even after this, TWO scions "kicked the asses" of at least 1-2 dozen guys. The cutscenes even show this. No. At start, THEY were outnumbered. by far. So you can't bring this point. It does not exist at all.

But again:
You like it. I know this and accept it. For YOU everything is fine. So just ignore this thread. Okay?

They usually mention that you should get (before), and sometimes mention that you had (after), a band of adventurers with you.

I believe even sometimes said in the course of the story dialogue that you should get the adventurers who helped you before.

Yes, they do. But it's for gameplay's sake. Storywise it would often enough not make sense and if you look at the cutscenes you are in most of them the only one there.

The thing is anyway, that the WoL should really not be able to defeat armies. But some people just bring this up, so they can ignore the original critic. This "but there is an army right on the other side of the door" is their main argument, even though it makes no sense. A look at the cutscenes alone is proving this.

I'm sorry but the one doing the most arguing and saying we're wrong about logical conclusions taken about certain aspects of the storyline will not even acknowledge any or all logic behind any action that our character did or did not take within the plot. They are wanting every tiny detail explained which is completely and totally unneeded for this type of story telling. They're saying it was too forced then fine they can have that opinion. But I'll now be putting then on my ignore list until they can actually come up with a valid plot hole in which can't be explained by logic, which is what a plot hole is.


You know my only thought now is was the poisoned wine meant for us as well they made too much of a show of the hand maiden walking away with the wine bottle that makes me want to think our glass had the poisoned wine in it as well.

Please, don't act like a kid here. What you do is a trick I know of children, who just blame the others to do, what they do. I don't even know what people like you are doing in this thread. You really are only here to say, that it is dumb and everyone discussing here about odd points is dumb, too. Why? If everything is fine for you, why even write here? Why read this thread? It would be one thing if you would try to explain these points. But that's not the case. People who "argue" here against the OP are just ignoring them and throw other stuff at it, to "win". This is no PvP here. You can't win anything here. You don't get marks or items or anything.