SPOILERS: End of CUL quest after 2.55

[angrygameraaron]

I completed my CUL questline before patch 2.55. What I want to know is, does Nanamo still make her cameo after 2.55 when you complete your level 50 CUL quest, or do they replace her with another city leader?

[Belhi]

I hit 50 too. Im guessing though its the same as before. It would be a lot of work to redo any sidequests that reference the Sultana.

Im ok with them setting quests at certain points in a timeline. Yeah it can be immersion breaking but it frees them up a lot narratively to do things. The realistic alternative is them never having main scenario characters referenced in side quests and vice versa.

[Kuwagami]

Nanamo is still here because lv50 CUL quest takes place in 2.0 timeline. What happens in 2.55 is totally irrelevant

[Fenral]

Another one of these threads? This happens.

Sorry. I kind of have to now. I figured this would be a pretty common question, so I made it my mission to find the answer on day 1 of patch. There was another thread for this still on the first page of Lore, and there have been a few topics in General Discussion as well. This thread has all you need to know to understand what they did and why.

[XiXiQ]

Actually, I'd not be too surprised to find she's not dead at all, though the plot to kill her was real and the handmaiden was a double-agent.

[LineageRazor]

Actually, I'd not be too surprised to find she's not dead at all, though the plot to kill her was real and the handmaiden was a double-agent.

I agree that there is plenty of room for Nanamo to not really be dead, just knocked unconscious or something. We were never able to examine the body, and the only people so far to have asserted her deadness are all evil villians.

That said, I HOPE that she's still dead, not because I dislike the character, but becuase it cheapens the drama if it turns out to all have been just a ruse. We can already expect to see the Scions to have miraculously survived - particularly Y'shtola since she's pretty much become the mascot character for FFXIV. I'd like to see at least ONE lasting consequence from this bold turn of plot. And no, Raubahn's arm doesn't qualify.

Regardless, whether Nanamo is really dead or not, at this point in the storyline the player character, as well as the player, is meant to believe she is dead, so it makes no sense to see her cheerfully eating dinner in the CUL cutscene. Folks have argued that players are just supposed to "know" that the CUL quests happen earlier in the timeline, but I'm not buying it, not unless they provide some kind of indicator that this is the case (like the fuzzy, faded colors associated with Echo flashbacks). "This sort of thing happens in MMO's," is not an acceptable answer to me, not when the staff has been so good in keeping things consistent up to this point.

[Kuwagami]

I agree that there is plenty of room for Nanamo to not really be dead, just knocked unconscious or something. We were never able to examine the body, and the only people so far to have asserted her deadness are all evil villians.

Ilberd specifically said he killed her though.

Regardless, whether Nanamo is really dead or not, at this point in the storyline the player character, as well as the player, is meant to believe she is dead, so it makes no sense to see her cheerfully eating dinner in the CUL cutscene. Folks have argued that players are just supposed to "know" that the CUL quests happen earlier in the timeline, but I'm not buying it, not unless they provide some kind of indicator that this is the case (like the fuzzy, faded colors associated with Echo flashbacks). "This sort of thing happens in MMO's," is not an acceptable answer to me, not when the staff has been so good in keeping things consistent up to this point.

Ever heard of patch continuity ? the CUL quest happens in 2.0. it doesn't matter if you do it during the 2.55 MSQ or during 2.3, or even 4.0 for that matters. The lv50 CUL quest will still be a part of 2.0's era.

Also, the devs knew this was coming. Nanamo's death was written back in December 2013. If they wanted to change the CUL quest, they could have done it. They didn't. Because there is no paradox other than the one players are creating.

The only "fix" would be to force players to do some quests before some others. Like "no you can't do the banquet quest unless you finish the CUL quests". How stupid does that sound ?

[LineageRazor]

Ilberd specifically said he killed her though.

So, you're claiming Ilberd is not an evil villain? Read what I wrote - only evil villains have claimed that Nanamo is dead. Evil villains lie, and Ilberd in particular was trying to rile Raubahn up.

Ever heard of patch continuity ? the CUL quest happens in 2.0. it doesn't matter if you do it during the 2.55 MSQ or during 2.3, or even 4.0 for that matters. The lv50 CUL quest will still be a part of 2.0's era.

Also, the devs knew this was coming. Nanamo's death was written back in December 2013. If they wanted to change the CUL quest, they could have done it. They didn't. Because there is no paradox other than the one players are creating.

The only "fix" would be to force players to do some quests before some others. Like "no you can't do the banquet quest unless you finish the CUL quests". How stupid does that sound ?

Again, read what I wrote. Yours is exactly the kind of apologist reasoning I'm talking about. You say "CUL quest happens in 2.0". Explain that to a newcomer to the game, and prove it to them within the context of the game. You're not allowed to ramble on about the history of FFXIV's development, or patch notes or anything like that. You're not even allowed to use the terms 2.0 or 2.55. Show them, in game, ANYTHING that indicates that the player should understand that this quest is happening in the past.

If SE had Nanamo's death planned for so long, that makes this faux pas even LESS forgivable. They had all the time in the world to set up the CUL quest with alternate dialogue and cutscenes to accomodate a player who has engaged in them at different points in the storyline - just one of MANY possible fixes that does not prevent players from doing the quests in any order they like.

Stop defending SE. They dropped the ball on this one, and there's no good argument against it. I very much hope this kind of sloppiness doesn't set a precedent. I don't care how common it is in other MMO's, THIS MMO CAN be, HAS been, and SHOULD be better.

Unexpected plot twists like this that shatter players' notions of NPC plot vulnerability are a GOOD thing, but ONLY if they go the whole mile and patch up the plotholes appropriately, rather than depending on the vague notion the players will somehow "just understand" that events are happening at different points in time, when there's no reasonable way to expect that they will.

[Fenral]

I'm sorry there are things in this game that disappoint and upset you, and you feel like nobody understands what you're trying to say about them. I have no idea what that's like.

[Belhi]

I think your expecting too much to expect SE to rewrite sections of the original game on the off chance someone leaves a sidequest till after something happens that effects the characters in that sidequest.

Its simply too resource intensive. It results in one of two things. Either crossover and references between side quests and the main story are completely non existant or SE is seriously inhibited with what they can do to the story because any character mentioned in a side story becomes plot armored and unusable for major events that would greatly effect that character.

The issue with the first problem is it leads to a sense of detachment in side quest and events in the main story lead to situations where people go 'well were was Mr X NPC? He would have surely been involved in this event.'

The problem with the second issue is it leads to character stagnation and the removal of any sense of uncertainty which undermines the tension in the story as we know any character appearing in a side quest is immune to death or serious harm.

As an MMO ages this problem gets worse. Lets say someone doesn't level a DRG until lvl 70. SE would have to go back and redo pretty much the entire DRG story if anything happened to the characters in the DRG storyline in Heavensward which would seem likely to some extent since they are supposed to be key figures in Ishgard. That's ridiculously resource intensive. It's totally unrealistic to expect them to be able to produce that amount of work without it heavily cutting into the available new content.

Reworked old stuff to fit story changes or actual new things to do? Which do you think is more likely to keep players playing?