RMT, ICANN and XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION

[Reokudo]

You will block legitimate players and many of these guys are not from China. Regional blocks are a dumb exercise in profiling that does nothing, some are from the united states. There was no RMT in tera because its a dead game with no money to be made.

I play with players from the PRC, they are good friends and probably a better player than you.

Wow, such a violent reaction. Yet you see other games like Vindictus which also doesn't have an overly large player base that is riddled with RMT. Don't get so mad yo.

[Magis]

Oh good god.

Yeah, let's let government censor even more what they want. This same line of thinking got American's the Patriot Act and now Canadians Bill C51. The terrorizers gonna all get us.

Also cyber crime is still illegal.

[Kosmos992k]

Yeah, let's let government censor even more what they want. This same line of thinking got American's the Patriot Act and now Canadians Bill C51. The terrorizers gonna all get us.

Also cyber crime is still illegal.

Hyperbole aside, what is your point? I'm talking about finding a way to enforce existing laws in meaningful ways online, it has nothing to do with censorship. honestly I wish that the paranoia surrounding regulation and lawn enforcement online would learn to look at reality and what is said instead of immediately assuming that anyone suggesting enforcing existing laws online is requesting a return to the East Germany of the Soviet era.

As I pointed out (as has Kyuven) the problem is not whether things are illegal, for example , in the USA. The criminal committing the offense will more than likely be hidden behind a foreign hosted proxy, with a foreign based server, and be a foreign national themself. So, despite the fact that whatever horrible thing they did online is illegal here, it's not illegal where they are, so what do you do then? For that matter, even if they were in the US, or the EU, the law there still hasn't figured out how to handle online offenses properly, even just enforcing existing laws is pretty patchy.

If someone in another country where there are no laws governing what is done online decides to stalk you, steal your identity, slander and smear you, and harass you with threats, there is currently next to nothing you can do to prevent it, or bring them to justice. How is wanting to fix that issue censorship or related to things like the Patriot Bill?

Seriously, put the hyperbole cannon away and focus on the point of the topic - which relates to how do you stop RMT and other online scams without some form of international accord among law enforcement that covers the online world?

[kyuven]

ｓnip

There IS one legitimate concern that could extrapolate to censorship:
Just as an example, in China there are a lot of banned materials. Even though it's the absolute height of hypocrisy to do so, China could use international law enforcement to persecute people in other countries producing materials banned in their own country.
Admittedly this is a simplified example, but it's something that could happen when it comes to "obscene" images, especially as the Japanese constitution explicitly forbids the distribution of "obscene" materials.
You would need a legion of lawyers from every single country to draft up what can and cannot be prosecuted.

[Kosmos992k]

There IS one legitimate concern that could extrapolate to censorship:
Just as an example, in China there are a lot of banned materials. Even though it's the absolute height of hypocrisy to do so, China could use international law enforcement to persecute people in other countries producing materials banned in their own country.
Admittedly this is a simplified example, but it's something that could happen when it comes to "obscene" images, especially as the Japanese constitution explicitly forbids the distribution of "obscene" materials.
You would need a legion of lawyers from every single country to draft up what can and cannot be prosecuted.

I agree with you, I don't know what the answer to that concern is, all I know is that doing nothing isn't helping the world. Certainly I do not want to see any censorship or police state like action. But at the same time, there must be some middle ground that we can find that allows better protection for regular, everyday people and their online activity.

[Miitan]

If someone in another country where there are no laws governing what is done online decides to stalk you, steal your identity, slander and smear you, and harass you with threats, there is currently next to nothing you can do to prevent it, or bring them to justice. How is wanting to fix that issue censorship or related to things like the Patriot Bill?

Let's say that a country makes it illegal for men to show their bare chest, even in a virtual world. I'm assuming you'd be perfectly ok with being put into jail for wanting to be a topless Roegadyn? Just because we don't like something, doesn't mean that we should go around making things illegal. Heck, I'd make it illegal for people to play Hyur because they're so boring.

[Kosmos992k]

Let's say that a country makes it illegal for men to show their bare chest, even in a virtual world. I'm assuming you'd be perfectly ok with being put into jail for wanting to be a topless Roegadyn? Just because we don't like something, doesn't mean that we should go around making things illegal. Heck, I'd make it illegal for people to play Hyur because they're so boring.

You'd be surprised what is illegal or legal in other countries, that is why we have international agreements on law enforcement to ensure that situations like you describe do not come to pass.

Ah well, I guess you'd rather nothing be done, I shall never understand people content to sit on their hands when something needs to be done.

[Gilraen]

I think you're the one missing the point here, Kosmos. We in the Western world value our freedoms, all of them. Among the most fiercely protected of which is the internet. People've gone to some incredible lengths to keep the internet free of our mundane laws. And before you start bringing up the various hinky things that people have done online that wound up getting them incarcerated, understand that those police endeavors were done as part of efforts to collect tangible evidence before the arrests were made and not by independent organizations unrelated to police in any regard. ICANN is an independent organization that, while holding the keys to the IP domains vault, doesn't have any plans to ever infringe on the freedom of the internet. That would fly counter to what the internet is all about. Governments are not the same, hence the North Korea references.

Now, Square is doing all it can to curtail the RMT problem, but they are trying to do so while not alienating their actual paying customers. They don't have very many pleasant options at their disposal, and they know full well that said options would be temporary nuisances to the RMT at best, potentially catastrophic inconveniences to their actual paying customers at worst. So the only non-damaging solution is to ban individual accounts as they are reported and remove the gil they're carrying from play. This is where we come in. Instead of knee-jerk blacklisting RMT and acting like they were never there we should instead endeavor to report them and THEN blacklist them and act like they were never there.

[Risvertasashi]

ICANN is an independent organization that, while holding the keys to the IP domains vault, doesn't have any plans to ever infringe on the freedom of the internet. That would fly counter to what the internet is all about. Governments are not the same, hence the North Korea references.

More to the point: ICANN is an administrative organization, not an enforcement organization. ICANN will follow court orders. But it's the courts that make those kind of decisions, not ICANN.

[Kosmos992k]

I think you're the one missing the point here, Kosmos. .

No, no point being missed, and I'm from the UK and live in the US I am quite well versed in the civil freedoms and responsibilities we enioy in the West and to be honest, I believe I may value them more dearly than most. Freedoms and rights come with things called responsibilities, but I'm going to guess that thought will be lost on you. I deal with enough paranoia towards reasonable regulation of things where I work, to know it when I see it.

The Internet has no laws because it was born in a lawless space, and grew faster than our collective ability to understand how to handle law enforcement online. No one had go to extereme lengths to ensure that the Internet is free from laws, mundane or otherwise. I'm beginning to suspect that some revisionist history has been applied to the Internet. Of course I've actually used the Internet since before it became the "internet", I've watchedit grow, I saw the idealism of the early days be swallowedup by ecommerce and a sesspit of filth.

In all honesty, I feel that there is no point in discussing this with you any further considering the degree of misinformation you accept and promote as fact. So, having said my piece I will leave you to your alternate reality