"I Was Out of That!" (Some Life Lessons)

[Purrfectstorm]

The other option is that you stop yourself being held back and manually make a better group. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with this post of yours. The laggers have just as much a right to use DF as you do to try and clear content. You seem to suggest they should simply stop playing the game if their internet problems are unsolvable. Of course you can also kick the player holding you back assuming it's 7 against one. Use the tools the game gives you for controlling the group. That player has no obligation to leave just because their technical situation isn't as good as yours.

And guess what, people have "carried" you too when you were inexperienced and lacked gear. It's not a bad thing, as long as everyone is doing their best. There's always going to be someone better than you for whatever reason and they might just end up in your group. I doubt you would leave duty as soon as that happens.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying. People who are held back by people in DF will eventually make their own group. This is to the detriment of bad and/or lagging DF players though. These players are more likely to get the better and/or non-lagging players to stay if they make an effort to improve things on their end. It doesn't have to be lose-lose, it can be win-win, for everybody. As for the player with a bad technical situation having no obligation to leave, I agree with this also. However, again it is not likely that their sticking around will be of any benefit for anybody; they cannot enjoy the content (if they're laying in Titan's lava from the get-go) and are unlikely to actually clear it (the group kicks them or disbands).

And the only thing I'm trying to accomplish is to encourage dialogue about these types of things. I feel like I've succeeded. Not everyone agrees with me but that's fine, the information is there. Maybe my point of view is right, maybe it's wrong, but hopefully there is some benefit to sharing different perspectives. Even if I'm really an elitist jerk and just can't see it, at least now players will know what us elitist jerks are thinking when they get the "You have been removed from duty" message

[Magusrex]

The problem with Titan EX is that no one know if they are going to lag until they actually go into the fight. You can stack and move with everyone else, and still get hit even if your on the edge of the arena.

"But one person shouldn't hold down the group!" It's NEVER, just one person. Competent player A goes into Titan EX, and clear it after on hour of attempts. Then Competent Player A wants to farm, so he get joins Competent Player B, and he joined by Noob A who is on a DPS job, and Noob B who is on a tank job. Everything goes fine until phase 2 and its time to stack and move with everyone else and gets plumed. Next attempt. Noob A get hit with a landslide, but Noob is a DPS and no one cares about DPS because they are a dime a dozen, and DPS aren't important (no this is not my attitude, this is general MMO attitude), and Landslide doesn't require a stack. Next attempt Competent player B gets a phone call in the middle of the fight because RL happens. Next attempt, Competent Player A is goaled and isn't broken out in time, and gets Granite Sepulchered, gets raised, and had to make a choice to heal the tank that got Mountain Bustered NAO, or a dodge a plume. Either way Competent Player A takes blame. Competent Player B ragequits, takes 5 minutes to replace. Next up Competent Player A gets broken out of a goal too early, and is landslided. New person goes on rant about how much Competent Player A sucks. A few wipes later, Noob B doesn't get the adds and people start taking more damage then they are supposed to, and Competent Player A can't heal because he spent the last of his MP raising two people. Noob B doesn't get kicked, because Noob B is a tank and tanks are rare, and Noob A says nothing is his fault because the parser says he's top deeps, never mind that he broke you out of a goal 3 times. As time goes on people get more and more frustrated, and start blaming each other, causing performance to suffer, and then group disbands. Now Noob A and Noob B get their clique together and spreads things about Competent Player A, and now Competent player A's reputation is shot even though he lagged maybe twice in the 20 something wipes.

This problem is more complex then just the internet. This fight brings the worst out in people because their is dissonance between being out of an AoE in other areas and this one.

This is so frakkin true. I know I am extremely competent, but I cannot get this thing done. You describe perfectly almost all of my attempts. I am going to have to use PF and create my own party.

I am a healer and one thing I have to say is. Please show up to Titan EX with 4.5k HP or better unbuffed 5k would be better, and Tanks over 7k please 8k is better. I grouped with 2 Paladins who came in with 6.4k and one DPS at 4.2...It was impossible. I queue again and here they were again.... I just left. I can understand trying something, but if you KNOW you can't do it, please do something about it, don't just keep queuing over and over ruining it for others. So I do understand the OP.

[XiXiQ]

[QUOTE=Gardes;2909040]If dodging those mechanics are actually RNG on a regular basis, it's your ISP, not SE.[/QUOTE}

There is a difference between lag (packet loss, which looks like rubber-banding or stop-starting) and latency (ping times - smooth play, but not properly synced AOEs, actions, etc). Lag is generally an ISP routing issue, and for most, it's intermittent. I have only seen it very rarely. Those times it's not just in a dungeon, it's very annoying and most of the time I just log off.

The fact latency comes into play IS SE's fault. It's directly related to distance from the server, there is no magic bullet to fix it like "get another ISP" and they should have coded accordingly. My very first post on this did include a simple way SE can mitigate it even with server-side processing. My main bugbear is the with "oh, it doesn't happen, and if it does happen it's not SE's fault anyway" crowd. It certainly does happen, and SE certainly can do something about it, and they should. That works out well for everyone.

[Fynlar]

"You're being elitist." LOL I'm about as casual as they come. I still haven't beaten T9 and I'm far more into collecting ponies and racing my chocobo than I am in getting through Final Coil.

Elitists don't have to be endgamers. People had very elitist attitudes with goddamn Brayflox speedruns.

[Purrfectstorm]

Elitists don't have to be endgamers. People had very elitist attitudes with goddamn Brayflox speedruns.

LOL fair enough. Although surely there is a spectrum of elitism? If so I suppose I fall somewhere between "I'll play with you no matter how little effort you put in to help the group" and "Know the fight, 1-strike, or kick and blacklist."

Hmm. I guess that's a wide range...

[Anna_Lannis]

Elitists don't have to be endgamers. People had very elitist attitudes with goddamn Brayflox speedruns.

25k/exp in Colibri party in Nyzul Isle with WAR/NIN x4 RDM/COR and RDM or GTFO (or FFXI exp parties in general).

SMN, RNG, BLM ONRY for CoP story content. "No I don't care about reading up on content and farming boss weakening items, if I can't burn it, I'm not helping."

LOL fair enough. Although surely there is a spectrum of elitism?

^ this OP.

[Veqluna]

I didn't read all of it but I actually agree with OP that if I running Titan Ex and someone can't dodge AOE and say they lagging, I'm not going to say anything but know it that I don't care fact is you can't dodge it lagging or not I can't do anything to help you and if I can help you by carrying you I will but knowing that you make this fight harder than it should (It's sad yes ).

and about going in blind for me I didn't met this people much in my server so I don't know but for me I alway watch video for atleast knowing machanic first before I go in , yes It might spoil me from flesh new experience but as a tank I don't want to going in and lead my party to dead It make me feel bad that everyone have to die just for me want new experience.

oh the only fight that I going in blind is Step of fate cuz It's the first day and It's very fun experience that we have to figure it out how it work, wipe 5 time before we can finished it .

[RukiaFae]

Wish I could afford a fancy pc to play this game because playing it on ps3 sucks and it seems to be getting worst. Any times I can move and be clearly out of the way and still get hit, not just in titan. Or I can cast cure and it does not cast in time. I use to be able to dps in the dungeons but now I can't because I'm too afraid my casting will be off. Can't wait until I can get my ps4 because ps3 players have it rough.

[Eye_Gore]

New game? I'm talking about ex primals and coil, ostensibly end game content.

I did a fly by on you, sorry. It was a generic conversation not aimed at anything or anyone. I guess in the end, does any of this really matter? We play the game going PUG in DF and it goes well that day, great. If not oh well, the sun will still rise in the morning. DF PUG is like a box of chocolates.

[Mugiawara]

Hi, everyone. Today I was bored and thought I'd DF Titan EX.

The dice represent the people you get in DF.
All there needs to be said.