"I Was Out of That!" (Some Life Lessons)

[SpookyGhost]

You could say the same to people who want a one shot kill.

You could, and you'd be right, but then why would either camp ever use the DF? JP servers use DF for clears and PF for practice. Why? Because there's an expectation that when you've entered a group with 7 random players, you aren't going to be there to waste anyone's time. The players with knowledge of the fight are going to perform at an average level and handle mechanics properly (or at least try to), thus either causing one or two wipes by a mistake of memorization or not causing a wipe all together. The new player, meanwhile, has no idea what mechanics will come in that fight and can easily cause so many wipes that the group disbands. Unfortunately, both types of players will enter DF, and there will be a conflict. There's nothing you can do to prevent it, it's a flaw within DF itself.

This isn't even really a problem with the players though, hard content where you can actually get the group wiped infinite times shouldn't be in the DF. This is largely a mistake on SE's part and, though I don't see it changing, I'd like for it to. Neither the experienced nor the inexperienced should be able to queue for stuff like Titan EX - they should have to make parties in PF for their preferred group comp and learn or farm the content from there.

P.S. I have absolutely no idea how to to the image/quote thing properly...

"Reply With Quote" at the bottom of the person's post will quote it in a new reply box underneath.

[Eye_Gore]

you aren't going to be there to waste anyone's time.

This is the real issue. Not who does what and why. Its that everyone's time is more valuable than the other persons no matter what. Who cares how its done elsewhere its irrelevant. Thing are done differently in all parts of the world for what ever reason. People drive on different sides of the roads in other countries. Does that mean one side is better than the other? If you don't want to waste your time, I suggest alternate means other PUG groups in the DF.

[SpookyGhost]

words

So, your suggestion is that everyone with experience who aren't willing to teach other's shouldn't queue for DF. I agree. Now, how are we going to go about enforcing that? Is there a way or are we just saying words that seem nice and are good ideas but aren't actually practical? I'm thinking that's the case. Again, it'd be fantastic if everyone helped everyone and we are all a pretty little community full of nice people... but it's not going to happen. It's never going to happen. Not in DF. Having these completely unrealistic expectations of hard content in DF is the problem - whether you're expecting to one shot it or you're expecting to learn from many wipes and having everyone be fine with that. Either everything is going to go smoothly by some massively lucky RNG (aka you either got all new people/exp people willing to teach OR you got an entire group of exp people who can one shot) or you're going to have some level of discourse in your party. You could get kicked, you could be the one doing the kicking, things aren't going to go swimmingly one way or the other.

I've been in many, many T7 DF attempts and I've helped many, many people understand the mechanics of the fight. It's probably the easiest fight in SCoB in terms of how easy it is to explain and not get everyone wiped. I've learned a few things from this:

1.) Some people can understand "if you have the triangle debuff, look off the edge before the timer reaches 0, stay looking off the edge until the debuff goes away" and some people can't. Eventually they will learn (freezing everyone multiple times tends to do this) but not everyone has the patience for that.
2.) Some people will leave after one wipe. Some people will give it the entire dungeon timer before they give up, even if they're experienced. There hasn't really been one appearing more than the other, sometimes you get a group where half the people leave, sometimes you get a group where no one leaves, sometimes you get a group where everyone leaves... it's random.
3.) Very few people actually go in without knowing the fight at all. Usually, within 3 or so runs, I'll get 1 or 2 people who say they've never done the fight and know nothing about it, and that's when I give a detailed overview at the start of the fight and work my way from there.
4.) Don't have expectations. I literally go into T7 thinking that no one knows what they're doing, will get us all murdered, not listen to advice, and vote abandon after one attempt. If you're expecting to clear, don't. If you're expecting to make it past one attempt, don't. Whatever expectation you have will be completely out the window no matter what it is after enough times in the DF.

It's a very pretty sentiment to think that everyone in DF should change to fit your needs and wants, but it's just not going to happen. I'm really sorry, and if you feel this way and we happen to get into an instance together, I'll literally stay the whole lockout and teach whoever I can. I, however, recognize that a large amount of people aren't like me and those people populate the DF en masse. Instead of complaining or expecting to "fix" the problem, I get on with it. It's a thing you have to expect, it's a thing you have to live with. If hard content wasn't in DF, however, this wouldn't be an issue - PFs would be set with expectations of the members in it and they would join the parties that meet their expectations. These still happen and on more populated servers they're a common occurrence vs taking your chances in DF, but as long as it exists you're going to get 8 people arguing in a party because everybody had an expectation that wasn't met.

[Eye_Gore]

So, your suggestion is that everyone with experience who aren't willing to teach other's shouldn't queue for DF.

I don't think I said that or implied it. However what I am implying is that no one is more important than the other. Of course alot will not agree with that. What I am saying is, we know how groups in the DF can be. To expect that everyone in there will be on the same page, watched videos, read guides, will perform at the same level as someone who cleared it a hundred times. While videos and the such can help prepare someone to what expect. It cannot and will not prepare for what does happen. Alot of things can go wrong real fast, and yes it is very possible it is not the players fault.