"I Was Out of That!" (Some Life Lessons)

[seekified]

OP makes some very good points. Nice one.

I'd like to take this one step further and say this: As a player in a group with seven other people, you also have some responsibility to ensure that the tools with which you play are up to par. By this of course I mean your Internet connections. If one person continually drags the others down because of a shite ADSL link that was bad when it was installed 25 years ago, that is not fair on the party. I know this is bringing real-life variables into the game and that many people have little control over these things, but still: If your connection is a detriment to the group, that is as good a reason as any not to run that content.

[XiXiQ]

If your connection is a detriment to the group, that is as good a reason as any not to run that content.

Until such time you experience such issues out of your control.

and yes - the speed of light is out of everyone's control.

[seekified]

Until such time you experience such issues out of your control.

and yes - the speed of light is out of everyone's control.

My point stands - if your circumstances don't allow you to perform as required to clear a fight, then don't make that everybody else's problem. I'm not talking random disconnects and occasional freezelags here, we all have those - I mean people getting into Titan HM/EX with a connection that consistently puts them a full second behind reality. Yeah, it's a shame, but stuff can almost always be done to improve a connection and if not, well... I dunno. I guess I'm just very tired of having my own experience ruined by other people's technical issues.

[LunaHoshino]

I guess I'm just very tired of having my own experience ruined by other people's technical issues.

There's an easy way to avoid that: don't use DF. Use PF and set your own rules. Otherwise, with DF, you get what you get, and sometimes that means you get a party that isn't capable of clearing the fight. That's just something you have to expect when you queue up for something via DF.

These days, just about every fight outside of Final Coil can be completed with a couple of people dead on the floor. One person failing at mechanics and dying shouldn't make that much of a difference, and if it does, that means the rest of the party probably isn't that great either.

[XiXiQ]

I guess I'm just very tired of having my own experience ruined by other people's technical issues.

What you're ACTUALLY tired of is SE's crap programming that gives no regard to the fact that some people are further away from the server than you are. Try blaming the actual cause, rather than the people who have to put up with it day in and day out.

[Anna_Lannis]

Oh yeah, I'm being aggressive because people in FFXI play FFXIV expecting it to be different and not FFXI in a bright shiny package filled with nostalgia goggles and . Oh, I'm being a aggressive because OP is making the same argument everyone else is making, and pointing out some self-help books to seem wise and sagacious. "Hey look at me, I'm ARTSY!" Oh maybe I'm being aggressive because aggressive is a fancy sounding word politicians use to smear people?

I'd like to take this one step further and say this: As a player in a group with seven other people, you also have some responsibility to ensure that the tools with which you play are up to par. By this of course I mean your Internet connections. If one person continually drags the others down because of a shite ADSL link that was bad when it was installed 25 years ago, that is not fair on the party. I know this is bringing real-life variables into the game and that many people have little control over these things, but still: If your connection is a detriment to the group, that is as good a reason as any not to run that content.

THIS again. Why is it always one person against seven other people? One person is not always to blame. Just how many times in a group the same person over and over again? Most times its group A on mechanic X, and then next wipe is by person B and C on mechanic Y and Z. This isn't exactly the "growth" mentality OP is talking about, unless by "growth" mentality you mean, give everyone what they want and telling people what they want to hear, because its popular and that makes it the "right thing". One person against the group is another fortune cookie tactic. Next reply will involve words like "hard work" and "common sense".

[seekified]

THIS again. Why is it always one person against seven other people? One person is not always to blame. Just how many times in a group the same person over and over again? Most times its group A on mechanic X, and then next wipe is by person B and C on mechanic Y and Z. This isn't exactly the "growth" mentality OP is talking about, unless by "growth" mentality you mean, give everyone what they want and telling people what they want to hear, because its popular and that makes it the "right thing". One person against the group is another fortune cookie tactic. Next reply will involve words like "hard work" and "common sense".

I never said it is, all I meant is that it is my personal opinion that as gamers who play with and rely on other gamers we should ensure that our tools can do the job we need them to. People randomly screwing up mechanics isn't a problem, that's just how the game works and I'm fine with that as long as everyone tries to learn from it. When it becomes clear that one person's client is, as I said, a full second or more behind the server though, that is a problem that I do think that player should take responsibility for.

[LTEvil]

Snip

I'm sorry what? Between all your banter and you bringing up ffxi I'm not sure why you are this emotional.

This topic is about the OP expressing an opinion. This opinion is about how people in general view using duty finder.

The comment about internet connection had an if in it. "IF". I admire passion but you are just throwing out random commentary in a very stand-offish (is that a better mix of words for you) matter. My point is calm down and read.

[Anna_Lannis]

I never said it is, all I meant is that it is my personal opinion that as gamers who play with and rely on other gamers we should ensure that our tools can do the job we need them to. People randomly screwing up mechanics isn't a problem, that's just how the game works and I'm fine with that as long as everyone tries to learn from it. When it becomes clear that one person's client is, as I said, a full second or more behind the server though, that is a problem that I do think that player should take responsibility for.

The problem with Titan EX is that no one know if they are going to lag until they actually go into the fight. You can stack and move with everyone else, and still get hit even if your on the edge of the arena.

"But one person shouldn't hold down the group!" It's NEVER, just one person. Competent player A goes into Titan EX, and clear it after on hour of attempts. Then Competent Player A wants to farm, so he get joins Competent Player B, and he joined by Noob A who is on a DPS job, and Noob B who is on a tank job. Everything goes fine until phase 2 and its time to stack and move with everyone else and gets plumed. Next attempt. Noob A get hit with a landslide, but Noob is a DPS and no one cares about DPS because they are a dime a dozen, and DPS aren't important (no this is not my attitude, this is general MMO attitude), and Landslide doesn't require a stack. Next attempt Competent player B gets a phone call in the middle of the fight because RL happens. Next attempt, Competent Player A is goaled and isn't broken out in time, and gets Granite Sepulchered, gets raised, and had to make a choice to heal the tank that got Mountain Bustered NAO, or a dodge a plume. Either way Competent Player A takes blame. Competent Player B ragequits, takes 5 minutes to replace. Next up Competent Player A gets broken out of a goal too early, and is landslided. New person goes on rant about how much Competent Player A sucks. A few wipes later, Noob B doesn't get the adds and people start taking more damage then they are supposed to, and Competent Player A can't heal because he spent the last of his MP raising two people. Noob B doesn't get kicked, because Noob B is a tank and tanks are rare, and Noob A says nothing is his fault because the parser says he's top deeps, never mind that he broke you out of a goal 3 times. As time goes on people get more and more frustrated, and start blaming each other, causing performance to suffer, and then group disbands. Now Noob A and Noob B get their clique together and spreads things about Competent Player A, and now Competent player A's reputation is shot even though he lagged maybe twice in the 20 something wipes.

This problem is more complex then just the internet. This fight brings the worst out in people because their is dissonance between being out of an AoE in other areas and this one.

[Magusrex]

The problem with Titan EX is that no one know if they are going to lag until they actually go into the fight. You can stack and move with everyone else, and still get hit even if your on the edge of the arena.

"But one person shouldn't hold down the group!" It's NEVER, just one person. Competent player A goes into Titan EX, and clear it after on hour of attempts. Then Competent Player A wants to farm, so he get joins Competent Player B, and he joined by Noob A who is on a DPS job, and Noob B who is on a tank job. Everything goes fine until phase 2 and its time to stack and move with everyone else and gets plumed. Next attempt. Noob A get hit with a landslide, but Noob is a DPS and no one cares about DPS because they are a dime a dozen, and DPS aren't important (no this is not my attitude, this is general MMO attitude), and Landslide doesn't require a stack. Next attempt Competent player B gets a phone call in the middle of the fight because RL happens. Next attempt, Competent Player A is goaled and isn't broken out in time, and gets Granite Sepulchered, gets raised, and had to make a choice to heal the tank that got Mountain Bustered NAO, or a dodge a plume. Either way Competent Player A takes blame. Competent Player B ragequits, takes 5 minutes to replace. Next up Competent Player A gets broken out of a goal too early, and is landslided. New person goes on rant about how much Competent Player A sucks. A few wipes later, Noob B doesn't get the adds and people start taking more damage then they are supposed to, and Competent Player A can't heal because he spent the last of his MP raising two people. Noob B doesn't get kicked, because Noob B is a tank and tanks are rare, and Noob A says nothing is his fault because the parser says he's top deeps, never mind that he broke you out of a goal 3 times. As time goes on people get more and more frustrated, and start blaming each other, causing performance to suffer, and then group disbands. Now Noob A and Noob B get their clique together and spreads things about Competent Player A, and now Competent player A's reputation is shot even though he lagged maybe twice in the 20 something wipes.

This problem is more complex then just the internet. This fight brings the worst out in people because their is dissonance between being out of an AoE in other areas and this one.

This is so frakkin true. I know I am extremely competent, but I cannot get this thing done. You describe perfectly almost all of my attempts. I am going to have to use PF and create my own party.

I am a healer and one thing I have to say is. Please show up to Titan EX with 4.5k HP or better unbuffed 5k would be better, and Tanks over 7k please 8k is better. I grouped with 2 Paladins who came in with 6.4k and one DPS at 4.2...It was impossible. I queue again and here they were again.... I just left. I can understand trying something, but if you KNOW you can't do it, please do something about it, don't just keep queuing over and over ruining it for others. So I do understand the OP.