ACN/SMN should be unlinked from SCH entirely

[Hiruke]

Though I doubt it will happen, I feel the most ideal approach to "fix" SMN would be to make SMN evolve from ACN (as now), but separate SCH entirely but making them a special job you unlock similar to the new 3.0 jobs like DRK. Basically, a special job you unlock and start at level 30. It can require ACN 30 if you want, but should NOT draw abilities from ACN.

With that in mind:

-ACN should lose Resurrect; it should go to SCH
-ACN should lose Eye for an Eye; it should go to SCH
-SCH's dps line-up of skills should be completely rewritten to account for no longer being a branch of ACN, which is why this will probably never happen

What should NOT happen:

-SMN pets shouldn't get bigger, become "real summons"; there's nothing wrong with egis, they look fine, no one needs a screen full of 25% size titans blocking everything as far as the eye used to be able to see
-How SMNs generally work should not vary greatly, just relatively minor tweaks. Should still have most dps come from the SMN proper, still be a DoT class, etc.

What I'd like to see happen, regardless of any of the above:

- Make normal pet attacks like Garuda's Wind Blade an AUTO ATTACK that can be freely interrupted by any other action (like, if I use Aerial Slash, Garuda should use it instantly, instead of ignoring me because she's busy "casting" Wind Blade). This would be one of the biggest QoL changes possible for SMN.
- Contagion should become a SMN action, and no longer a Garuda pet action.
- Pets should be given more purpose and identity.
-- Enkindle damage should be bumped up to account for the long cooldown, and instead of stuff like Wind Blade, pets should get a lower cooldown "big attack" that doesn't require something like Enkindle to trigger (like Predator Claws for Garuda or something - these attacks can have special attributes if you want). This would help give SMN better burst damage besides Energy Drain (I mean, when you need to kill a mob from 100% to 0% really quickly... not everthing lets you roll 3 DoTs and Fester it away... it may have already killed you or wrecked the PT by then.)
-- Pets should get some kind of buff skill to really differentiate each other, like Titan be able to Earthen Ward the whole PT, Garuda Haste the PT, Ifrit give damage buff to PT, etc. The buff can be relatively light -- it will still result in a raidwide buff, even if it's not super strong, giving SMN more of a reason to care about their pet and what it's doing.

Seriously, SMN burst damage is pretty garbage. The complete opposite of BLM. If you're at around appropriate iLVL for something and it requires you to kill adds quickly, good luck if you're rolling double SMN or something in there. Can only Energy Drain so many times before you run out of Aetherflow. It's like no one on the dev team even plays SMN...

[Cynfael]

Speaking as a SCH, get away from my base class, or I will cut you.

[Kittyband]

SCH has more to do with ACN than SMN does besides the carby summon which you can't even use after you get the SMN job which sucks. Also Egis suck, I don't want huge summons but mini versions of their full versions would be great even if changed a little. No reason a titan summon cannot be the size of a Roegadyn etc.

[Orrias]

Though I doubt it will happen, I feel the most ideal approach to "fix" SMN would be to make SMN evolve from ACN (as now), but separate SCH entirely but making them a special job you unlock similar to the new 3.0 jobs like DRK. Basically, a special job you unlock and start at level 30. It can require ACN 30 if you want, but should NOT draw abilities from ACN.

With that in mind:

-ACN should lose Resurrect; it should go to SCH
-ACN should lose Eye for an Eye; it should go to SCH
-SCH's dps line-up of skills should be completely rewritten to account for no longer being a branch of ACN, which is why this will probably never happen

What should NOT happen:

-SMN pets shouldn't get bigger, become "real summons"; there's nothing wrong with egis, they look fine, no one needs a screen full of 25% size titans blocking everything as far as the eye used to be able to see
-How SMNs generally work should not vary greatly, just relatively minor tweaks. Should still have most dps come from the SMN proper, still be a DoT class, etc.

What I'd like to see happen, regardless of any of the above:

- Make normal pet attacks like Garuda's Wind Blade an AUTO ATTACK that can be freely interrupted by any other action (like, if I use Aerial Slash, Garuda should use it instantly, instead of ignoring me because she's busy "casting" Wind Blade). This would be one of the biggest QoL changes possible for SMN.
- Contagion should become a SMN action, and no longer a Garuda pet action.
- Pets should be given more purpose and identity.
-- Enkindle damage should be bumped up to account for the long cooldown, and instead of stuff like Wind Blade, pets should get a lower cooldown "big attack" that doesn't require something like Enkindle to trigger (like Predator Claws for Garuda or something - these attacks can have special attributes if you want). This would help give SMN better burst damage besides Energy Drain (I mean, when you need to kill a mob from 100% to 0% really quickly... not everthing lets you roll 3 DoTs and Fester it away... it may have already killed you or wrecked the PT by then.)
-- Pets should get some kind of buff skill to really differentiate each other, like Titan be able to Earthen Ward the whole PT, Garuda Haste the PT, Ifrit give damage buff to PT, etc. The buff can be relatively light -- it will still result in a raidwide buff, even if it's not super strong, giving SMN more of a reason to care about their pet and what it's doing.

Seriously, SMN burst damage is pretty garbage. The complete opposite of BLM. If you're at around appropriate iLVL for something and it requires you to kill adds quickly, good luck if you're rolling double SMN or something in there. Can only Energy Drain so many times before you run out of Aetherflow. It's like no one on the dev team even plays SMN...

Heavensward inc., so the combat/ stat overhaul will determine the outcome of SMNs/ SCHs. That being said, I don't see the logic in wanting "fix" SMN by unlinking it from SCH (which I am in favour of), and yet you want to then remove a SMN's utility... Why..?

[Orrias]

SCH has more to do with ACN than SMN does besides the carby summon which you can't even use after you get the SMN job which sucks. Also Egis suck, I don't want huge summons but mini versions of their full versions would be great even if changed a little. No reason a titan summon cannot be the size of a Roegadyn etc.

The new SMN-specific limit break (in 3.0) will most likely be a fully sized summon. I don't want any additional player sized avatars on my screen, thank you very much -- I quite like my amorphous egi.

[Kittyband]

Ifrit and Titan are pretty much human sized in game already, except they hover. So don't really see the problem with primals the size of Lalas or slightly bigger maybe the size of a small end Roegadyn for such summons as Titan when they're already pretty big as is.

[HexWeaver]

Cutting SCH off from ACN does make more sense than cutting off SMN which so many people are suggesting, first off SCH has no business with those intelligence traits that come from ACN, especially if you removed SMN from the equation. Secondly, ACN is a DPS class. Think of the new players (like myself, last year.) that start playing the class as a DPS and actually want to continue doing so instead of being forced to stay as ACN or become a healer at 30+?
To the people suggesting just that, quit being so selfish.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I don't think it really matters if they stay linked looking at the big picture. Don't forget we have only branched off into our jobs since lvl30. So we have only had 20 lvl's worth of progression with each job (that's not a lot) and ARR itself is still a young game. It's a safe assumption that as our job's further progress they will start to become more removed from the base class and truly gain unique identities with only a few similarities.

[Sequora]

I'm fine with SMN remaining a DoT class. I think elemental DoTs would make more sense. They can have the same effect or a similar effect as the current dots.We go from a poison wielding caster to a caster who channels the power of the primals into an egi who is a portion of the primal. I know I'm not the only person who thinks this way. There isn't any other job in the game that has so many posts about people being unhappy with the way the job is. SE has said that the reason they haven't added BLU or RDM is because they don't want to ruin the iconic image of those jobs. What about the iconic image of SMN? Traditionally SMN is a powerhouse with very flashy offensive and defensive magic in the form of these impressive summons. In FFXIV we're a poison wielding caster with a tiny pet that we have very little control over. I do want new designed egi's. They look extremely rushed. I want more abilities like enkindle. I want to feel like a summoner. Our pet feels like a small part of the job.

[Bigcat9715]

If they did split. I'm pretty sure it's going to be a year before we can play a job that had its base class ripped out of it. So, it doesn't matter if Sch or Smn lose acn, it's going to be a year before we can play as either.