[dev1032] Current Affinity System

[Spuffin]

And what would be the point, in Final Fantasy XI, to take any sub-job past 40?

I see what you did there...


yes, because anyone disagreeing with your reality-warping points is a fanboy right?
Waitress! A reality check for my friend please.

In 11 what if you want to lvl Warrior.. well you have to take it to 75. What if you want to make warrior a viable DD and tank well lvl ninja to 37 but wait... what if you want to be a NIN 75? Why would I want to be a NIN 75 when I already ahve both shadows on my WAR 75. Oh yeah because I have insanely fast attack speeds and max cooldown shadows and Ninja nukes allowing me to tank just about anything. You cant do that on warrior... /nin allows survivability.

FF11 sub jobs only granted you abilities up to 37 and all/most of them are minor attack/accuracy buffs. It doesnt allow you to use every ability/spell up to 75 at any lvl you wish. WOOT I HAVE REFRESH AND CONVERT AS A LVL 1 BLM!!!! and all I had to do was spam leves every 36 hours to obtain these abilities too.

[Alicia_WM]

To Spuffin,

You must level a job to 50, especially a Disciple of War, for the following reasons:

1) AP to use all of the abilities you got from other classes as well as the level II weapon skills from the 50 class.
2) Ability to hit NMs.
3) To not get killed in one shot by NMs.

My Archer is 22 right now. You are correct by saying I can use Cure II, Siphon MP, Raise, Feint, Second Wind, Bloodbath (true in my case). However I would not have much room for any Archer abilities at this point. Instead I assign Archer buffs and weapon skills, and maybe one or two abilities from other classes (Cure II and Invigorate). To do what you are saying would require I attain a high rank on Archer. Even then, I would want the relevant break skills for NMs, and would be too busy trying to build TP to do much else.

Also recall that on Archer my spells will all be single target and weak. Invigorate is on a longer cooldown and also weaker. If I were to level Lancer to a high rank for Invigorate II, then honestly I feel I deserve to use it for all the hours I would have put in toward it.

[Abriael]

For fun? To play something that was actually different? I had every job past 50 and most to 75.

Which is exactly the same point of bringing a class to cap in FFXIV right?

Glad you agree

In 11 what if you want to lvl Warrior.. well you have to take it to 75. What if you want to make warrior a viable DD and tank well lvl ninja to 37 but wait... what if you want to be a NIN 75? Why would I want to be a NIN 75 when I already ahve both shadows on my WAR 75. Oh yeah because I have insanely fast attack speeds and max cooldown shadows and Ninja nukes allowing me to tank just about anything. You cant do that on warrior... /nin allows survivability.

Which again, is exactly the same reason why you bring a class to cap in FFXIV.

FF11 sub jobs only granted you abilities up to 37 and all/most of them are minor attack/accuracy buffs. It doesnt allow you to use every ability/spell up to 75 at any lvl you wish. WOOT I HAVE REFRESH AND CONVERT AS A LVL 1 BLM!!!! and all I had to do was spam leves every 36 hours to obtain these abilities too.

And guess what? that's what class affinity is for. Reduce class affinity, and even high level abilities become "minor buffs".

It seems to me that you don't really know how class affinity works.

[Spuffin]

To Spuffin,

You must level a job to 50, especially a Disciple of War, for the following reasons:

1) AP to use all of the abilities you got from other classes as well as the level II weapon skills from the 50 class.
2) Ability to hit NMs.
3) To not get killed in one shot by NMs.

My Archer is 22 right now. You are correct by saying I can use Cure II, Siphon MP, Raise, Feint, Second Wind, Bloodbath (true in my case). However I would not have much room for any Archer abilities at this point. Instead I assign Archer buffs and weapon skills, and maybe one or two abilities from other classes (Cure II and Invigorate). To do what you are saying would require I attain a high rank on Archer. Even then, I would want the relevant break skills for NMs, and would be too busy trying to build TP to do much else.

Also recall that on Archer my spells will all be single target and weak. Invigorate is on a longer cooldown and also weaker. If I were to level Lancer to a high rank for Invigorate II, then honestly I feel I deserve to use it for all the hours I would have put in toward it.

Dude. Give me a good reason why I should level lancer to 50 when all of its best abilities are 1-20. You will have not much room for you abilities because apparently you can fit as many as you need at 50.

It also takes away the class unuiqness in which this game allows you to use lancer weapon skills and archer weapon skills and so on and so forth on every class. That's boring and not fun I am given no intensive to take any class to 50 let alone use Wide Valley on my Pugilist...

Now why would I want to take Archer to 40+ to use Wide Valley II on my Pugilist...

[Abriael]

Dude. Give me a good reason why I should level lancer to 50 when all of its best abilities are 1-20.

Even if it was true, that's not a problem with class affinity. The problem is where the abilities of the class are located in the level progression.

Identifying the actual problem is the first step to solving it, instead of randomly attacking a completely unrelated mechanic.

[Blitz0309]

Which is exactly the same point of bringing a class to cap in FFXIV right?

Glad you agree

If playing ffxiv was fun that would be the case... but its not. And the current armory system is a pretty big chunk of that.

[JakeRoon]

Abriael's nay saying aside as usual.

I agree and this is an issue i've seen with this system all long. You'll probably have 2-3 builds by the end.. Who cares if you add more classes later when the abilities are just going to be added into this ultimate bastard classes.

and this is different from any other MMO ever created by man .....how?

[Blitz0309]

Even if it was true, that's not a problem with class affinity. The problem is where the abilities of the class are located in the level progression.

Identifying the actual problem is the first step to solving it, instead of randomly attacking a completely unrelated mechanic.

It is still a valid point. If you need to take every class to 50 just to get certain abilities to be the ultimate character then the armory system is nothing more than a time sink in the first place. Its going to be ffxi all over again except people won't say you're a gimp because of your gear its going to be because you don't have X job to Y level and using Z skills on your main.

How can you be so damn blind to see that its a half assed system as it sits?

[Abriael]

If playing ffxiv was fun that would be the case... but its not. And the current armory system is a pretty big chunk of that.

Then go play another game, since the armory system is the very basic foundation of this game, it's selling point and most advertised feature. It's not going to go away because you hate it.

It's not a bad thing really. Different games are for different targets. This one, quite obviously, is not for you, since you hate it's whole premise.

[Abriael]

It is still a valid point. If you need to take every class to 50 just to get certain abilities to be the ultimate character then the armory system is nothing more than a time sink in the first place. Its going to be ffxi all over again except people won't say you're a gimp because of your gear its going to be because you don't have X job to Y level and using Z skills on your main.

How can you be so damn blind to see that its a half assed system as it sits?

Unfortunately not agreeing with you doesn't mean being "blind". Despite what you seem to think, you're not the prophet of the ultimate truth.

You forgot the rather important thing that no matter how many abilities you have. No matter how powerful, you're still limited by stamina and time.

If an ability is made less effective and situational by a lowered class affinity, it will never be indispensible.

The whole purpose of the affinity system is to make your main class ability generally more useful than cross-classed ones, while cross-classes ones should be for support and versatility, not a prerequisite.