EXP Parties as an option please!

[Zumi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiXdeDM1_hE

This is a video I took of me killing robber crabs in kufta but I was over leveled. I was doing relic great sword trail kill 3000 crabs with a ws. I used my healer npc to help kill. See how there is a camp of crabs and you pull them one at a time. Also notice the combat. It takes me several auto attack swings to get 100 tp to use my WS.

A exp party was bascially this with 6 people.

[Kiara]

Not to be rude, but to me this still sounds like a FATE party. It seems like you are looking for certain types of players rather then certain types of activities.

To clarify, I never got to play XI so I'm genuinely interested in what it is that makes EXP parties something different then what we have in the game. So far the only real difference I've seen anyone use is "People talked more". (I can't say this without sounding offensive, sorry about that.) It kinda makes FFXI sound like a really fancy chat room with a combat mini game for when people run out of things to say.

Hi Cutie,

To add to what Galliano and Stouter mentioned, a few things different from FATE Parties:

1. FATEs basically allow anyone to just join in. As a result of this, people don't really have to form parties (they can solo or just duo w/ their Chocobo). There's a sense of "isolation" or not needing to ever party w/ anyone to clear the FATEs (but of course you can if you want to).


2. FATEs are randomly spawned in the zone. While it keeps it interesting (to keep you looking at the map), it also means it's basically a wait-and-see game: See a FATE pop? Mad dash to get to it in time.

When FATEs were really popular early in 2.0, you probably remember seeing mad hordes of players just dashing from 1 FATE to another, slaughtering everything (face roll) and then waiting for the next one to pop. You never really settle in anywhere: Just be ready to run to the next FATE. (It also can be frustrating if you're in a large zone (like Coerthas), doing a FATE in the upper NE area only to see the next FATE spawn in Behemoth's Dominion, LOL. (Groan.))


3. Related to the above is that FATEs are timed. You have to run over and get to a FATE in time, or else it ends, and you have to wait. There's also downtime, when sometimes no FATE spawns for a while, or it's a lower level one in a zone that covers multiple level ranges (I know level sync helps, but it's still less EXP).


XI's Exp Parties were essentially finding a "camp" (area), where there were monsters that were appropriate level to yours and you'd be able to get great Exp off of them. The respawn rate was usually pretty high, so you'd be able to replenish and repeat.

The world mobs in XI were also tougher than current world mobs at your level, so it required a traditional party (Tank, Healer and DPS). I'd say it's kinda like fighting "Go! Go! Gorgimera" FATE (that Chimera clone) in Northern Thanalan (in terms of difficulty), but with a bit less HP. In other words, it wasn't just anyone can face-roll / kill Exp Camp mobs solo (death was a real possibility). You had to have a party to focus.

With "camping," it could get boring, sure, but it also meant more time in the social aspect (being able to chat with the party members), but also XI had a Party Combo System called "Skillchains" where you can coordinate and link certain Weaponskills sequentially, to cause various Elemental Bonus Damage, and then Mages could tack on a well-timed Magic spell to get a Magic Burst.

I can only speak for my server, but Skillchains added a lot of fun and coordination, and kept the interest level up for Exp Parties (you could mix and match various Skillchains / Magic Bursts, etc.). It's more player agency / freedom to engage vs. just the simple individual stuff we do now.

Also, Exp Parties were cool to utilize most areas in the world: FATEs are spread out, but they are always in the same circular spot in fixed parts of the map. With Exp Parties, if there are mobs that are viable all over the map, then any of those areas could be viable to camp in. And it's cool just being out in a certain area (feel like you're exploring a zone).

The social aspect: Perhaps it's a combination of the speed of leveling up now (fast), and anyone being able to Duty Finder / solo queue up for whatever they want to, but with that, there's no real need to get to know many players on your own server beyond your FC / LS. Compared with Exp parties because of the need to get Exp and hunker down in a steady camp spot, you got to start knowing more players (on your own server) and get to build friendships.

Lastly, to those who mention you can just do that now via Party Finder: It's true, but the rewards are awful. The Exp you get from Open World monsters are paltry compared to Dungeon leveling and FATEs, but it was done on purpose (since SE wanted players to experience those aspects over traditional Exp Parties).

Also, Party Finder Dungeon Parties are different because they pull from Cross-Server, and it's all about efficiency (get in and get out). You probably will never see them again, and thus have no reason or feeling to want to socialize.

Going forward, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have all 3 (FATE, Dungeon DF, Open World Exp Parties). I agree that I wouldn't want to see the return of XI's Exp Parties *Only* as the means to level up.

But as *another option* / viable way to level up? Sure, why not? It's all about choices, and SE took the time to make these beautiful zones and fill it with mobs. But currently outside of FATE spawned Mobs, these zones are just "window dressing": Worthless mobs that give you a tiny bit of Exp that make them more of a hindrance than anything.

[AreeyaJaidee]

Amazing post Kiara.

You hit the nail on the head. XIV needs this, back in the day it was what made logging in so fun, you never knew who you would meet, or what craziness would happen. Made a lot of friends just lvling jobs.

XIV is already a step ahead in that we already have lvl sync mechanic in place. All SE has to do is tweak mob density, location, HP(increase), and EXP(increase).

Even though I have everything 50, I'd even lvl sync to help others lvl if it meant zones being more exciting and camps were a thing. Otherwise its back to shout convos in mor dhona and DF groups full of mimes and bots repeating the same stuff ad infinitum.

It would be a well worth it additional option to pre existing lvling options.

[SanjuroXI]

I miss exp partys,but people on this game don't have the attention span to pull it off in this game. The lvling in this game is dull and requires very little focus it would be cool if ffxi style pts were a option,but i think itd be hard to fine the people whod be able to keep up at that pace in this game.

[MageBlack]

If you want to socialize, you will find ways to socialize. This is a personal issue and not something solved via any ingame system. The only reason it sorta worked in XI is it was such a slow game in all aspects. You had time to converse as you waited for the auto attack to build up your skillchain. Even if there was an area like the dunes in FFXIV, if people are training enemies to make this method efficient for leveling purposes (which is what you guys are asking for) then when would you have time to type and talk between using skills and pulling new mobs?

This game does not lend to this and even if it did, the people that would chose this method over all other methods of leveling will not be the kinds of people you are hoping to attract. it will be like hunt parties when they were "the best method" or FATE parties when it was "the best method". I know you guys have a soft spot for the archaic methods of leveling but the landscape has changed as well as its participants. There are some really well worded posts here explaining how to do it and reasons why but they are not taking a realistic approach and have some heavily tinted glasses on.

As it's said, If you want people of a like mindset to do this, they will do it for the social aspect, not necessarily for the exp gain because that is in effect the golden egg of this system you are holding up. Just go out, find a good FC and make some friends and play together. This was a HUGE thread way early on in ARR beta and at launch, SE replied then and I don't think the stance has changed. I'm terribly sorry about your luck but to make this work as you want it to would require many fundamentals of the game to be changed to accommodate it. FFXI is still going and if this is the system you hold above all others in this game, feel free to play FFXI or hold out for EQN (if that is even still coming) or some other company to make a more hardcore style of game where this is the system of choice.

EDIT:

Going forward, I think it's perfectly reasonable to have all 3 (FATE, Dungeon DF, Open World Exp Parties). I agree that I wouldn't want to see the return of XI's Exp Parties *Only* as the means to level up.

But as *another option* / viable way to level up? Sure, why not? It's all about choices, and SE took the time to make these beautiful zones and fill it with mobs. But currently outside of FATE spawned Mobs, these zones are just "window dressing": Worthless mobs that give you a tiny bit of Exp that make them more of a hindrance than anything.

This is a prime example of not understanding how todays landscape has changed. As i mentioned earlier about Hunts, once it was decided as the "best method" EVERYONE flocked to it, not because they liked the system but because it was the "best one". Players are always seeking the path of least resistance to getting what they want regardless of the fun factor. The go so far as to google the best cookie cutter way to do something and if you do it any other way you get ridiculed for doing it wrong. I'm not one of those people but the ones that do this drive the game. I wanted to do PvP or Dungeons during that time but I could not do any of that stuff until it was nerfed. I was reduced to doing solo content. It would take so much effort to balance out exp per hour based on levels, based on speed of killing, on an average party, then one party will come along and kill the system by having a party of all WHM's (or something) where they just roam through the whole zone steamrolling everything with Holy spam. Open world content is a lot harder to regulate then you think.

[AreeyaJaidee]

Your logic, black mage, also works against the current system implemented.

You state that the social aspect is a choice, not inherent in design. However this is false in a sense and easily proven by the argument you use in defense of players doing the "best" content.

The flaw in this logic is that the "best content" doesn't inherently create social experiences by its own design at the games current state, nor does it foster a social experience. Now to make a choice in most situations a human is presented a stimulus with conditions. If the existing conditions can be done solo (everyone having all crafts at 50 for example) then the social implications are not enforced.

Yes anyone can look at a stick and RP that its a boat amidst a devastating storm, etc. But to actually insert that situation into reality rather than relying on players imagination is a different thing altogether.

[MageBlack]

Your logic, black mage, also works against the current system implemented.

You state that the social aspect is a choice, not inherent in design. However this is false in a sense and easily proven by the argument you use in defense of players doing the "best" content.

The flaw in this logic is that the "best content" doesn't inherently create social experiences by its own design at the games current state, nor does it foster a social experience. Now to make a choice in most situations a human is presented a stimulus with conditions. If the existing conditions can be done solo (everyone having all crafts at 50 for example) then the social implications are not enforced.

Yes anyone can look at a stick and RP that its a boat amidst a devastating storm, etc. But to actually insert that situation into reality rather than relying on players imagination is a different thing altogether.

Interesting way to interpret what I said. I was not in any way saying any systems are geared towards generating a social atmosphere. In fact, it looks like we agree that no content can force people to be social. That is entirely on the shoulders of the players and todays landscape of players does not lend itself to the kind of social community that was present in older games. My example of Hunts was not to show a good example of social systems at work but the opposite and to show what would happen to this system if it was implemented. If i was to hold ANY system up as a way to make people be more social it would be the FC system and all the stuff associated with that but even then, you will get lurkers and leeches. I don't think English is your first language or i am failing at communicating (most likely the latter) so I dont mind explaining things for you

If you want to socialize, you will find ways to socialize. This is a personal issue and not something solved via any ingame system. -snip- Even if there was an area like the dunes in FFXIV, people training enemies to make this method efficient for leveling purposes (which is what you guys are asking for) then when would you have time to type and talk between using skills and pulling new mobs?

-snip- [if added] it will be like hunt parties when they were "the best method" or FATE parties when it was "the best method" [turned into a hive of anger and resintment for the system because of how players chose to do it].

-snip- If you want people of a like mindset to do this, they will do it for the social aspect, not necessarily for the exp gain because that is in effect the golden egg of this system you are holding up. Just go out, find a good FC and make some friends and play together. This was a HUGE thread way early on in ARR beta and at launch, SE replied then and I don't think the stance has changed. I'm terribly sorry about your luck but to make this work as you want it to would require many fundamentals of the game to be changed to accommodate it [more than just more hp or more exp per mob].

-snip- As i mentioned earlier about Hunts, once it was decided as the "best method" EVERYONE flocked to it, not because they liked the system but because it was the "best one". Players are always seeking the path of least resistance to getting what they want regardless of the fun factor. -snip- It would take so much effort to balance out exp per hour based on levels, based on speed of killing, on an average party, then one party will come along and kill the system by having a party of all WHM's (or something equally stupid and out of the norm) where they just roam through the whole zone steamrolling everything with Holy spam. Open world content is a lot harder to regulate then you think.

[Xatsh]

This was argued heavily when 2.0 launched. Yoshida does not want people leveling up doing things that are "Not Content" which were defined as Fates, Quest, and Dungeons. Aka this is a themepark you must do what the devs want you to in this game.

It would be a simple fix to make xp partys a thing, just raise the XP per mob kill cap, keep it the same as it is now for mobs = to you or slightly higher but increase it on mobs 7+levels higher up to a max of 800-1200xp per kill per player on mobs say 15-20+ levels above you and partys would be able to kill them for xp.

There is so much resistance in this and I really cannot understand how having this as an option is a bad thing even until this day. It promotes grouping and community... a hell of a lot more then fates which I feel are disliked by about the same majority of the community that dislikes party based leveling.

[AreeyaJaidee]

snippy snip

Actually. I think reading comprehension is the culprit here. I am not in agreement with you, and my post firmly states that. (Although I believe you were actually being cynical/mocking in your post out of spite or prejudice to an opposing voice to your opinion (Which is base and uneeded).)

To simplify, FFXIV exists on the premise of a theme park as Xatsh has so nicely noted YoshiP for in her/his above post: As with anything regarding business, marketing is a largely contributing factor. Advertising is a good example of what I am referencing in defence to your stance on game content. Advertising knows very well what it takes to sell someone something for X price and make them like it or believe they liked spending their money on it. An MMO is no different.

Now let's add those two analogies together, a theme park and marketing/advertising:

FFXIV serves main attractions/themes to its player base. Some players are not asking for those rides to be torn down, rather more interesting concession stands to be added alongside the main attractions. Concession stands with appetizing food, which will make them feel like they have spent their time/money in an appropriate way. Now let's broaden that concession stand into the form of what is being requested in this thread. Instead of merely a concession stand, some ppl want a restaurant, complete with more options and a nice theme which enhances the social aspect of dining. <--- Dining can be done solo, however, incorporating elements that allow strangers to socialize over a meal, is more appealing to some than others.

This is the premise of EXP Camps. Players want the freedom to use the landscape in an adventurous way instead of viewing it as some static landscape with inherited functional yet unused aspects. They want to feel "alive" due to braving "danger" when journeying from one point of interest to another. Such an element creates its own meta game if implemented correctly.

So I do NOT agree that social engagement is purely on the players. I am of the opinion that it is more so a combination of content with the correct advertisement/mechanics which allow/enforce social interactions. As in commercialism, it is by design. We humans are simple in some things, and our attraction to entertainment devices are one of those areas in which we are easily attracted to if the design is very well done/thought out.

[StrejdaTom]

I love your idea as I really enjoyed farm parties in Lineage II, where you met lot of strangers and exped together for hours. Unfortunately it isn't possible I think, FATEs are really viable and no mob killing will be on par with it even if they improved it, I guess.